The possibility of new Extraordinary Items, and what, if anything should be done


#1

So, I was talking with some people regarding the possibility of new Extraordinary gear in the new zone. Several were excited, but a few were annoyed. The excited ones were on Epic to Mythic gear, and the annoyed ones were on several to full Legendary gear. The basic idea has been talked about before, probably many times, but a quick search turned up nothing pertinent to my discussion here - though there is a lot on the reddit.

With Season 2 looming, it seemed like a decent idea to start a discussion about it here.

If there are new Extraordinary Items in the new map, is it time for a system which allows people a slightly less taxed and taxing way to swap into it? I know that a lot of games, successful ones even, rely on the gear treadmill (WoW), but there are others that have a very solid gear cap and get by with offering new stat combos that are fairly easy to obtain, while giving enough variety to keep it interesting (GW2).

I know that if a new item came out that was hands down just incredibly better for me than a Legendary I have, especially if my Legendary is not max level, and thus gets Taxed on the XP even more in the current conversion system, I would be quite annoyed. Seems to be the general consensus of those players I have asked.

On the other hand, if people can just instantly convert into the new items, they lose a bit of their perceived value, scarcity, and prestige. Several people who do not have Legendary items yet even were of the opinion that if a player has gotten that far, that it should be no “real hassle” to do it again.

I sort of see both sides of the issue. I am not full Legendary, so some of my items I could “easily” swap into by getting the hypothetical new ones to max Mythic. But others I would have to take a massive loss on or level from scratch and just keep the old one and hope it gets a buff eventually…I guess.

It also raises a question about the future. In another year, a lot of veterans who don’t see a problem with it now will have effectively locked themselves into specific Legendaries. In another two, even more, and so on. If Funcom wants to keep releasing new items (Cache, zone, dungeon, or otherwise) should the system get an overhaul to make it less of an issue for players?

An example, not even necessarily a suggestion, but something to get the ball rolling which has been suggested before: What if the “Extraordinary” portion of any given item could be removed for Aurum or MoF, and slotted into any other item of it’s type (Pistol to Pistol, Head Tali to Head Tali only) but had to be leveled separate from the item in question? Would that be a solution? Have any better ones? Is the system fine and people should just accept it?


#2

Maybe because they didnt get there yet.

Yes you are right.

Well, that is a delicate matter. Cause that would introduce another layer of xp in each and every talisman/weapon. And that could actually defeat the purpose. With the current system, the only way i could see it working, without creating another grind hell, would be to add items buyable with aurum which would allow you to change the extraordinary trait of one piece of gear against another. Noting that in order to do so you would need to already have in your inventory a 3pip extraordinary item of any level (most probably green lvl 1) which would be consummed in the process. Alternatively, just introduce as someone was mentionning it a long time ago an “xp vessel” item which you could buy with aurum.


#3

(MMO)RPG’s are often about progression. Levels, gear, achievements. But how to handle the ever increasing progression is not something I’ve seen one game been able to handle in a way that’s good. Well, maybe good, but not such that all are happy.

Both power creep and the “you know that awesome item you spent ages levelling up? Well, the first trash drop from the first mob you killed is better.” are things that are relly hard to handle.

I’ve been thinking in the same lines as you example. But what stopped me were that extraordinary weapons have signet slots. I liked the way this was handled in TSW. Extraordinary weapon abilities in TSW “filled” the signet slot. If this was the case in SWL, I think your suggestion would be good (able to create a signet out of a extraodinary weapon).


#4

My main gear is all red, weapons, talismans, signets, glyphs. At my current pace, it’ll will easily be another year until I’ve maxed it all, so if Funcom introduces new extraordinaries in DotM, I will shrug and dump those on some nameless mule if I find any of them.


#5

Personnaly, i think that we should not forget that the effect of those item on our dps is not so great, (for example, the thread on the cold dice silver/gambler dice), and if i were to take my case as example, im full red with one tali and two weapons maxed out, if there was any new item released and it would be better than those i have right now, well i will wait till i have maxed out those i have and then, maybe i will take it and use it, but i dont think that any new item is worth going backward on your gear passed a certain level ( even the egon talisman and the head tank talisman of NYR Raid)

Thank you for reading me

PS : i am just talking about new stuff, i am not talking about having the most efficient gear ^^


#6

Expansion ‘greens’ outright replacing ‘raid epics’ is the standard. Honestly no matter what we’re probably better off here, since our ‘raid epics’ are still worth something.


#7

In most other MMOs, when a new update drops it brings new items for you to hunt and replace with your existing stuff. The upgrade process is simple: you find the new item, you equip the new item. The perceived value, scarcity and prestige came purely from the efforts to obtain it. Didn’t feel bad to ditch the old item because it was a clean, quick process. There was no additional effort involved.

In SWL, there is additional effort involved when replacing items. You have to find the item, maybe upgrade it to 3-pips if it isn’t and level it up to where your old item was. These extra steps do nothing but act as a deterrent. A deterrent that can be alleviated using microtransactions. Catalysts, Anima Imbuers, Cache distillates.

Funcom has already done something about this, which was the partial experience transfer they implemented a while ago. It transfers 40% of the experience on the current quality tier, forgetting the experience spent on the previous tiers on both branches of the tree. That implementation more or less displayed Funcom’s stance on the situation. They couldn’t ignore the overwhelming feedback about there being an issue, but this was as far as they were willing to compromise.

Then there’s the other aspect of the pyramid upgrade model. The main stat progression in SWL happens through upgrading, not through finding new gear. Extraordinary talismans have a miniscule effect on your gameplay and your damage output. Some extraordinary weapons can have a much bigger effect, but not enough to be mandatory. Replacing gear is pretty much optional in this game. A luxury. The developers know that. That’s probably the other reason they don’t mind keeping the replacement process painful.

If we face severe power creep that makes new extraordinary items a necessity, then there will have to be changes. Until then I don’t really expect any further action.


#8

They did boost XP upgrading via higher ranked talismans, glyphs, etc. Not sure what empowering using a legendary would get you as a baseline.

Either way, you’re not “locked in”… there’s nowhere to go past legendary anyway… you can level up this thing “on the side” and if you ever get it high enough, start using it. Barring that, it’s just ignoring all gear from now on.


#9

Yes, you are right. The outcome though is that at this point, and i have only one legendary item all others being mythic 15-35 area, i just sale all the gear i get on the AH or scrap it. Why? because the alternative is far too time consumming or expensive. At least for me.


#10

True enough. Sad though.


#11

Here’s hoping the developers haven’t wasted time on esigning new extraordinary gear for a game essentially designed to make people not care because trying something new is just too unfun.

… we’re going to get more open world talisman drops like the belts, because why not, right?


#12

If there are new items, I’ll ignore them entirely unless they’re so good it’s worth using them at a full tier below current ones (eg. a max epic being better than my max mythics).

I know how long my mythics took to upgrade, and I’m not planning to do it again. I’ll obviously continue to dump xp into items but I’m treating mythics as the end of the line.

Probably the biggest thing pushing me this way is the experience of upgrading my legendary hit glyph… I’m up to E9 IP, I run more scenarios than dungeons every week, and it’s been moving so slowly that I still glance on e8.


#13

Yeah, this is a large part of my main concern.

If they take time to make new ones that are balanced and interesting, it will be a waste for a lot of their (arguably) more dedicated players.

If they take time to make super OP ones that make Egon look like trash, then they are screw-ing their most (arguably) dedicated players.

I know they added the 40% conversion, but that comes with a hefty tax for non “capped” items. So if anyone has a Legendary lower than 70, especially if it is in single to low double digits, you lose a Massive amount of xp in the transfer.

It is likely a non issue for 90% of the player base, not a huge one for another 5% or so, but those who aren’t full 70 Legendary, but have “some” levels, will get screwed if they do add Good extraordinary talismans.

Also, @Bassed, if you have Head/Neck/Wrist/Belt/Luck, it adds ~1.1-1.4CP/s in damage, which is about 75% of an extra basic attack with every hit. Below 50%, it rises to ~1.6-1.7XP/s. While not necessarily gamebreaking, it is definitely nothing to sneeze at. The last 3 added Talismans have been massive upgrades over the “basic” ones at launch as well: Egon/Spectral/Belts.


#14

But what exactly are you saving up for? If you’re not upgrading your gear, then your MoFs and Shards are just accumulating in the bank which is just as pointless as levelling alternative gear.

If right now you’re using those sale funds to get your mythics to legendary, that’s totally understandable. But eventually, you’ve got nowhere to go. :slight_smile:


#15

Then don’t upgrade to the newer items. Problem solved, we can all go home now.