Doesnt mean anything… Its all how it is coded. T4 beares were for some time the absolutes killing machines. And when the same patch nerfs old legacy thralls, you can hardly compare them anymore…
Which I doubt 
Funcom tested that patch some time… According to the latest stream. Its also in cert process for consoles already…
Dalinisa can be an accident/overlooked… The rest I really doubt so. Lets see what happens… You see it positive, I already lost all hope for that.
So it does look like chances make the archer/fighter arch types pretty much meaningless.
What doesn’t get to me are perks with negative buffs. Why in help should my follower suffer from levelling up in the first place?
But any observation must be backed up by many times throwing the dices…
Oh I don’t mean ‘accidental’ as in something that will be fixed. Perhaps I should have used ‘coincidental’ instead. Collateral damage, as it were. I think it’s fairly clear that existing thralls will not be receiving much, or any, consideration.
coincidental: level20 bearers are all worse than previous?
coincidental: Anos the Preyfinder had 20k in a previous stream, which was “unintended” and will not go live like that → Now we have a Dalinisa with 17k
Yeah, only nerfing them so that the statement “new thralls will be way stronger” is still true. Way 2 go 
But seeing the 40% lockdown bug which Multigun reproduced, I really hope this patch does not go live like this.
From the changelog alone the patch looks nice.
EDIT: I have no idea why quoting suddenly doesn’t work for me 
It might be to give players a reason to get some of the new thralls.
A lot of people would just leave most of the old thralls if they had their old hp value which in many cases is sufficient for base defense and just level a few to be followers, let’s face it the old thralls were powerful and too easy to replace if you needed to.
They did not nerf the heck out of the old thralls, I did a test with one of the old Dalinsia’s in my testlive game to see how she performed.
Yes she only has her new base hp which is 3870 hp compared to 5805, while it is a reduction she still seems to do the same amount of damage as before, so I wouldn’t really call it huge nerf.
About the sherpa’s, they all have the same base stats, growth chance and a fairly low base hp, the stats might be an oversight, but I suspect that the low hp is intentional.
I remember a long time ago before they got a gigantic increase in hp and damage, they once were the toughest fighters in the game while also having the highest hp + 25 slots carrying capacity, in my opinion bearer thralls have been too op for a long time, so I don’t really mind them getting a huge nerf, they are after all pack mules and not fighters.
All in all I don’t see any game breaking bugs, Christmas is around the corner and Funcom needs to get it out and still have time to hotfix any crucial bugs before the holidays, so their employees don’t have to work overtime during christmas - I expect there to be bugs and stuff that needs balancing, but I rather want them to spend time doing it properly in the new year than making rushed decisions because the time is running out 
The thing is, if NEWER thralls would be alot better without NERFING the old ones, people would replace them anyway.
But lets say you had your base protected by bearers. Even if they do make the same dmg now, they HP is so low, that enough bosses/creatures will kill them…
And you need time to level thralls up. Its not something easily done for all the thralls to protect you…
So I dont get the nerf to their HP at all… Its just annoying because you have to replace certain thralls faster, because of their low HP pool…
Stats could be an error. See Multiguns thread where he discovered the bug…
And thats why their HP is nerfed? Thats some strange logic you have there… And that a level20 is even LOWER than current live… Its just.
Please read more threads… That bug with the 40% locked stats is a MASSIVE bug. As soon as one thrall has 100% in any stat, every thrall of the same type will have 40% in that stat.
PvP is a joke now, just use archer thralls with blunted arrows and normal ones…
Also looking at Dalinisa health pool… I mean I have no problem with that, I have plenty of her. But this looks like a bug… I dont want a patch where people farm her and level her up, only that the hotfix nerfs her.
That is your opinion
I just don’t see it as a big problem and the values I’ve seen so far seems fair to me, it’s not like world bosses will wreck any thrall that is below 4000 hp, more often than not a single T4 thrall can kill a world boss without losing more than 1500-2000 hp, besides you can heal them with healing arrows, buff them with food.
You can call it strange logic all you want, I could also call bearers being too OP and making them unrealistic and immersive breaking as they are right now.
How realistic is a bearer packed with stuff fighting world bosses like a champ?
Bearers haven’t always been like this, once they were poor fighters with low HP and suddenly they buffed them to be the best… We just got used to having it way too easy with a bearer being like this for so long and now they are going back to be a bit more realistic in my opinion.
I do read other threads, but if you read my carefully you see that I wrote it based on my experience so far trying this new update in testlive, and yes I see the 40% value as a bug, and I am sure they will get it fixed fast.
I don’t have an opinion on how it is on pvp, I only play pve-c, so I’ll leave that up to those that actually play on pvp servers.
About Dalinsia, what makes you think that her health pool is wrong, it is not like she is much different than any other T4 thrall from mounds, Vulcano etc, besides she is now one of the more rare T4 fighters to find, so it makes sense to me.
Yes she starts out with 8746 hp, but 4876 of them comes from Attributes where most of them are spent on vitality, they all get 45 attribute points to start with, Dalinsia has a base hp of 3870, a T4 Vulcano fighter has 4950 base hp, a relic hunter treasure seeker fighter has 4951 base hp, a cimmerian berserker has 2580 base hp.
So her base hp is indeed more than a berserker, but much less than a T4 from Sepermeru and Vulcano.
All thralls, as far as I have seen so far, gets 45 attribute points to start with, so there’s nothing strange about Dalinsia so high hp because 30 of her initial attribute points are spent on Vitality.
And btw way, there’s really no need to focus so much on thrall hp alone, a thrall with decent hp, good strength and agility can easily match or even outperform a thrall with most points spent on vitality, since they will hit harder and have more armor
For those wondering what will happen with the legacy thralls. Here are my old ones (whether this will go live or not, I don’t know):
They are indeed with 0 attribute and remained with 0 attributes when trying to level them with the admin command:
- with gear (note the bonus stats)Thats why I took the bearer as example… If you are protected by bearers which have 600hp now. And according to some other tests, a T3 bearer has MORE… That doesnt make any sense.
The nerf makes just no sense. If newer are better than older, everyone will replace them…
With the nerf it feels forced, because the old ones are garbage…
As you wrote, bearer were one time the strongest. Currently they are not… And I would always imagine that the bearer thralls have high HP and low DMG. I only have 1 T4 bearer currently (placed! Have a chest with all of them several times).
This needs to get fixed before it comes live… You can lock your thralls to 40% in every stat… It makes them worse. Simple as that.
Someone was able to raise her HP to 17.000!! The 22k Anos Preyfinder in a previous stream was also said to be a bug.
I have no problem with Dalinsia… Have >8 of her in a chest…
Yeah, but a bearer shouldnt do massive dmg or? And therefore should have high HP (or at least not lower than current live).
I also did some testing with my highest health and highest attribute rolled bearer. At level 10, the bearer was barely scratching the enemies. I brought a level 1 fighter to the same battles, with the same weapon and he was killing with 2 hits, where the bearer was taking something like 20 hits.
Bearers are only walking backpacks now.
While this does make sense for realism, it is an incredibly massive nerf from before. Not a gentle one at all. Bearers will likely only get used for iron runs at Gods Claw, much like the old days.
For those interested, apparently, you can not only gear your thralls for better stats (epic flawless str gear for +9 str for example) but to apply war paints as well for additional +3 of the desired stat.
And the next thing is:
WHY get old thralls HP pool adjusted to the NEW one, but they cannot get the leveling system?
That makes no sense at all.
Can you compare the new level0 T4 thrall with a legacy one? And remove the bonus hit-points…
Because with the update the HP from old thralls gets on the same level like new ones… But they cannot get the leveling system because Funcom says so.
They get altered on patch update…
Same is also true for dancers 
And that thing goes live at Thursday… Alone with this 40% lockdown bug… Seriously…
Okay, I still think you’re seeing malicious intent where there is none. Thralls have always had their HP pools retroactively adjusted whenever their “template value” shifted - even for already placed thralls - and I think all thralls have had their template values changed with the coming patch.
As for why old thralls cannot be on the leveling system, that is indeed a kick in the nuts, and I can only refer to the streams as far as an explanation goes. My educated guess (which is still just a guess) is that the leveling system is applied when placing down a thrall (or other follower), and that event cannot - for whatever reason - be replicated for already-placed thralls.
Well, that is true.
Money & time.
I still cannot believe, that the patch goes live like this. Bearers are complete trash and have worse HP than before.
Fighters seem great… Archers are for PvP to OP and the 40% lockdown bug is the next thing…
But I cannot say anything anymore, because I would get my 3rd strike then which would result in perma-ban…
Well, yes. Everything always boils down to one or both of those. What I meant was I don’t know what specifically it is that costs too much money and/or time to do it.
Indeed. Poor Pelor, we have seen some sh…t together he and I, but I fear this is retirement.
I think there could be several factors to this…
This update is tied together with the last DLC which they have an obligation to put out before this year ends, a lot of people have bought season pass for 2019.
Christmas is around the corner, even devs need some time off during the holidays with their families.
Previous experiences show that updates frequently need urgent hotfixes after release.
I don’t know exactly what their reasons are, but I am pretty sure that they considered every possible scenario and done what they think is best.
I am not trying to make Funcom look like perfect, but it is not often that I have seen a company being so dedicated to their game and community
EDIT:
Actually I think the T4 bearer thralls have a bug since T3 bearer has 1680 base hp and a T4 has 640 base hp, so I am guessing this will be fixed pretty fast if not already internally
Since you’re one of the people who dug into the game’s innards as much as a non-Funcom-dev can, I’d like to ask if you know whether this is going to change after this update. As far as I understand, the new followers will now keep track of their own unique stats in their actors.
If I speculate, I can see it going either way: if they keep the stat as an absolute number, then a future update won’t affect existing thralls without implementing a migration process that combs through the game DB on reboot and modifies values as desired; if they keep the stat as a delta from the base in the blueprint, then future updates will affect existing thralls.
But I thought that instead of speculating, I might ask you and see if you have more info
Just speculating, but I reckon that their ‘base’ HP will still flex with any updates to the underlying template, but Vit points gained (which makes up the majority of Health @ lvl 20) likely will not - I think that’s stored as a fixed value only.
