TLDR: We need effective defenses and traps for all gameplay situations in this game. Specifics listed in post.
Especially for pvp defense we need effective concealable traps . Right now this game has no, repeat, no effective defense besides numbers and/or offlining opponents before they raid you .
Defense needs to be equal or maybe even a little more powerful than offense in that the attacker gets to dictate when combat starts. Defense gives up mobility in exchange hardening an area and giving usually a smaller force an advantage against a larger one (castles, keeps, towers, etc).
Right now defense in this game gives up mobility to become a ready open warehouse for attackers as there is no effective offline defense against attackers and smaller forces are only at a very slightly better position against larger ones from a defensive position.
So how to address this? We need concealable placeable traps or ones that can be constructed and made concealable to make an attacking force much more wary of attacking a structure. Currently the traps in this game are more of a liability to the defender and easily avoided or destroyed by attackers to the point that they are seldom/never used due to their uselessness in combat or defense.
Some rough ideas for traps (Note: all of these suggestions assume concealability of the traps with ground, door, window, wall, ceiling and any other surfaces variations within landclaim of defending player and some traps variations be available for placement anywhere you could place a bomb.)
Variations on traps made similar to effects of existing orbs and arrows types. Examples of these.
Oil traps that create a pool of oil when sprung by an attacker and similar effects for explosive, gas, etc.
Corruption cloud traps
Spice/pepper traps that blind or obscure player/thrall/npc vision (pve)
Arrow firing traps
False floors/walls
Acid traps
Darkness traps (clouds of darkness maybe craftable with sorcery)
Boulder dropping launching traps
Building and structure and player/ npc (thrall, pet) concealment/ camouflage
This is far from an exhaustive list of possible traps and defenses that would aid combat for and in/ on pve, pvp, pve-c situations.
TLDR: We need effective defenses and traps for all gameplay situations in this game. Specifics listed in post.
Players don’t have fun with being offlined or swarm rushed either though this remains in the game. I don’t intend this to be harsh in the stating, but many have questioned player enjoyment (fun) being the deciding factor in Funcom’s game changes to Conan Exiles especially of late.
Also, I would like to note that the Black Keep is not player controlled content and this could have also had a bearing in the deactivation of these traps. It would require a statement from the dev team to explain with any certainty the purpose of this deactivation in any case.
Traps could go a long way in helping defending players feel they are getting the same value in game for their time as the attacking players do. This is not balanced in this game currently.
I wonder if the game has been left to be simply a team deathmatch with bombs to remove flawed barriers to the death match. The barriers never really being expected to be actual defenses at all, but merely a speed bump. Lost opportunity if that is how defenses are being represented in this game and definitely not how the game is and was marketed to players .
I do believe traps and other defenses would slow down combat particularly raids to not be simply a one night affair and that is what the dev may fear that some players would object to a siege that requires a longer approach and that the attention span is not there or even the ability to a time commitment that would be required to wipe a players’ structure.
It does seem odd that with the current and past state of the high points of building materials being so extremely low compared to the magical levels of power bombs offer from a primitive explosive mixture as well as reliability as said mixture that other defenses would not already be in the game to compensate for this disparity.
Ark is 24/7 pvp. As I tried it out, I found videos of battles between a cave and a teleporter (doesn’t fit inside cave). They must of stocked up constantly because the battles are known to last 8+ hours. One team constantly stocks the cave from behind it while the other constantly stocks up through the teleporter.
Players here have said that is fun. Silly me, Ark is for kids.
CE is more than that. Yes, more defense options are needed. (Maybe I want to know how many times someone dies on my soil.)
Problem with this is that I might work for a day, maybe a week. If these concealed traps are effective then the raiders will just start bombing in one foundy at a time systematically destroying any traps as they go. And since it wouldn’t be realistic to give these traps the hp and durability of the foundatiins per se . It would probably only take 2-3 bombs each foundation. With current harvesting rates raiders have a lot of dp. Excessive use of explosive jars (overkill) is the current norm on official pvp’s right now.
Could make traps magical (sorcery) as the non-sorcery, but damagewise magical (their damage output rivels magic in the game) bombs. These magic traps could be made to only be revealed though triggering, extreme , but maybe necessary unless… bombs are severely nerfed in multiple ways.
Bombs are the primary means of raiding for very good and troubling reasons. Their damage and mobility to cost and convenience vastly outpaces all other modes of raid structure damage, to put it simply they are and have always been overpowered. The very fact that you even stated the immediate go to for combating raiding defenses (traps) is plainly just add more bombs shows the glaring issue of them outshining all other raid weapons.
If bombs are to remain being so convenient and overpowered then defenses need to keep pace otherwise the game will continue to be on pvp terms unbalanced.
Defense has taking a massive backseat to attack in this game to the point that bases are seen as decoration only not the refuges they are supposed to represent. The bomb is simply again the sketeton key of pvp and traps and other defenses could and should mitigate this unbalance.
What we really need are (not excessively big) ballistas to place on walls/towers that shoot down everything approaching. Some 100 damage 50% armor pen defences with GOOD accuracy to support fighters on the ground.
THAT and good architectures will make bases defendable.
I wouldn’t want a trap that provided WoW style CC holddowns as they are not fun to play with or against and are seen as a crutch in combat much like target lock in CE. I would prefer traps to be zone outs or deadly, but any meaningful defense would be welcome as we are relatively defenseLESS with the offerings presented to us compared to the OP options for attack.
Tactics seem to have been abandoned in this game in lieu of locking, just blow it up, and lets nerf defenses for the heck of it and make sieging even faster before the zerg rush loses interest. Might as well be TDM (Team Death Match) at this point.
@Sardontis the Explosive Jars are already needed. Like 5-6k damage per. So it takes 20 jars within a very tight proximity to destroy a single foundation. I believe that is down from 7k damage per jar that they used to do. The jars are fine. The problem is that they reduced the overall hp of the building pieces way too much in my opinion. Turn the hp on the pieces back up and also the splash, radius and damage(slightly) of the jars.
They lowered the bombs damage , but also lowered the building pieces damage that does not mean that bombs were and still are too powerful especially and ,make sure you read this part, are extremely cheap to make for the damage they do. I have seen bombs do way more damage to building than what you are saying it also comes down to placement. There is a reason that trebs are ignored in lieu of bombs to raid with and not just the set up time for the treb.
More effective defenses would make just strolling up with a bunch of cheap bombs would be much more risky and require more time to raid and would extend a battle beyond one raid session (which a true siege should. This is not Fortnite).
One raid session wiping (not every building piece obviously) is one of the chief reasons players hate offline raiding much. Entire raid time defense 7 days a week is not feasible for most players/ clans.
Expanding a bit on the raid window is mostly for another thread, however one option for this suggested by many would be to simply remove the raid window entirely and make raiding open 24/7 this would eliminate the advantage and disadvantage of players/clans based on personal schedules need for large clans to cover raid time windows.
I think biggest problem is traps should only really stop scouts and nothing more, the real issue is that traps would be cool, but wont help either.
the best way solve the problem is make trebs only real raid weapon, against t3 , so then make building treb 3 to 6 hour long. Also give the same immunity. This would stop offline raiding a lot since you can check your place and you would know if someone going to raid you.
no real baby sitting, since the goal is to make tier 3 you have good chance spot raiders and full commitments is needed to degree. You can adjust time to easily vs trying get wall strength vs bombs damage .
Give trebs neutral tags so you can build right at enemy gate if needs be,
I never understood trebs needing land claim… that makes no sense in any way when it comes to warfare. Do you need landclaim to use bombs ?? See an issue there.
Fortress (base) traps are used to take on fortress level threats be it a purge army, siege weapons in some cultures, scouts, raiders, thieves, and spies, etc, etc.
Look up Castle design and see how many traps were built into them and used. You don’t use rabbit traps against an enemy army or a military threat (ancient military). Castles (bases) were military structures first and dwelling second and it was a masterpieces ones that served both sides the best.
What is the purpose of short lived (they despawn even when not tripped) traps we have now ? Also what is the purpose of a traps that are easy to see (can’t conceal them, wtf ??) that defeats most uses and purposes of a trap. Again we need fortress level traps and defenses.
I thought about traps in this game years ago when I build my first piramid. I made it as a labyrinth and thought the only thing I am missing are traps. That was untill I walked away from it to a certain distance (you know, when rendering starts flickering around) and realised that it would be useless as all the other players need to do, find the spot to see all your structure’s insides.
Still, I believe traps and other castle defences (like catapults and ballistas) would be a nice introduction. Especially now, when they are introducing new purge.
This one tends to agree.
More defensive options are sorely missing.
Sword has long since shattered Shield in this game.
At the very least player placeable spike traps like the ones scattered around Black Corsair camps on Siptah would be nice. Something that does damage, applies poison and or bleed and cripples.
More that immitate any of the existing orbs.
The existing mines are only a deterrent against avatars.
As for Sorcerous ones, beyound corruption inflictions, there could also be runes or wards that when applied cause the panel to be either extremely hot or extremely cold. Possibly dark magics to make an area pitch black to anyone not in Clan.
Apply Gouging, Severed, Extremely Drunk are also good lines.
But all of this will be putting frosting on the fundamental problem, which is the IED meta of the game.
The ease of crafting, damage amount (vs structures), and range of placeablity for explosive jars is absurd.
We have this big ol annoying and interruptable animation for bandaging.
Placing an explosive could be the same.
Placing a bomb has all the care of leaving a package on someone’s porch. I suggested a while back armored plates of various types to be attachable to the sides of walls, foundations, and ceilings that resist or absorb specific damage types ( concussion, fire, etc).
Of course these plates would come with restrictions on weight if magically enhanced there would be the possibly of reactions to other resist types of plates resulting in reduced protection or adverse reactions like damage or danger to the player when attaching them (just to add interest).
We have sorcery now that fact alone opens the door to tons of ideas of defensive spells and enchantments that could be added to improve the defenses of a base.
If it is placed with all the care of the delivery person, then it should also be able to be porch pirated, picked up by anyone so long as they get to it before it explodes. With the same pick up distance as any other object and the ability to grab it thru windows, just like pulling thralls off stations.
