The State of Base defense and raiding

Conan Exiles General Discussion Feedback
1

Hi! first of all, i only speak from a pvp player perspective.
i make this thread to express my concern towards the state of base defense and raiding in general.
i think it needs to be revised and overhauled.

I am a big fan of home field advantage, i think that the defender should always have a big advantage over the attacker.
With that being said, with each passing update the means of attack are being buffed while the means of defense are taking massive hits.

One of the major hits was the nerf of thralls/teimos the players now are able to annihilate thralls without much effort, because well, they are bots.

Another one is the bat, if pillar bases were bad before, the bats made it suicide. you could say “well you can shoot them in air!” yeah good luck with that.
then you have the ice bridge, just another tool to the attackers making you able to reach previously unrecheable points of the enemy base.

in the next update trebs are getting buffed. and of course, the removal of the god bubble.

Don’t get me wrong, these 2 are welcomed changes because trebs were extremely vulnerable to both arrows and bats, 1 hour to build them was too much.
And the removal of god bubble erases the problem of having many unradiable bases.

But whats the problem? that you have very little means of defense.
What can you do if your base is being attacked by explosives arrows? you would try to chase them and stop them? When they can just run and run and run. and thats a 1v1 scenario.
if you are 1v3 you cannot do much.
Then you have bombs that will destroy your base.
A treb is going to melt it.
and of course with a god you can only throw them explosive arrows while your stuff is getting destroyed.

So here are a few suggestions:

1)buff the HP of structures.
2)Remove the bat entirely. (edit) OR create an “anti magic” zone similar to the bubble preventing the bat in an area, or simply greatly slowing them down.
3)Create a singular structure that buffs your thralls in an area, by , lets say 50 % similar to the Thrall Pot, but instead of feeding them, buffing them, this should make them more viable for base defense.
4)Nerf the damage of raiding methods.
5)remove the friendly fire activations of stuff like traps. (bear traps, add spikes, mines, ect)
6)SIEGE CAULDRON i have seen this estructure and i actually really like the concept, but currently is useless in PVP.
So what can we do about it?.

First, what about creating exterior walls that take reduced damage of lets say, trebs or explosives.
and give the players the siege ram that the new purge has, so they try to demolish the gate. as the best way to get in. but then burning oil falls in their heads!

of course we could add some limitations or make these “exterior walls” really big to prevent any unintented use, for example only able to put traps or defense mechanism in 2 or 4 foundations around the walls to prevent use them as the standard base building. (you would not be able to put usefull buildings like benchs) because of course i know that players are going to try to exploit it.

But i think that we can find a way to make base building viable in open field so we can have the medieval siege fantasy/battle.
make raiding more dynamic and not much “LETS MELT THE ENEMY BASE WITH 20K OF EXPLOSIVES”

Whats my idea? make building anywhere viable without having the need of getting “the best spot”

Why? because currently building in open field or in a pillar base is suicide

Ty for reading!

4 Likes
2

Let me give you something to think a bit beyond. What about if…
All your walls were unbreakable or extremely hard to break.
You couldn’t have a building block without at least one door.
Only the doors and gates were breakable.
And siege cauldrons were actually working.
Imagine the new purge system to simulate on pvp.
Wouldn’t be more “fair” for the defender?

1 Like
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i would not say unbreakeable or we would find the same problem we had with god bubbles making some unraidable bases.

i guess a good solution would be to only be able to build walls nowhere near anything like for example, game estructures like the dam. we could be creative with the restrictions of the wall so they do not become abusable and can become once again a viable defense method, because now you can skip walls with either ice bridge or the bat. (ice bridge is fine, it can be countered, bat not so much)

this is pretty much what i had in mind but instead of giving the cool weapons to npcs, better give it to players!

Lets say that the ram becomes the best way to destroy stuff, but with the big difference is that you have to be at melee range to do damage so that makes you vulnerable to all sorts of attacks including the siege cauldron.

Currently, raiding from a safe distance is what is happening right now.

Explosives need to be put with a distance between you and the bomb, so at the same time you can be more or less far from your intented target making the defenders life harder.
This applies to jars, arrows and of course trebs, even the gods.

So is harder for you, the raider be punished for attacking.
one could say “the best defense is the offense” and while i more or less agree, it should not go as far as going that you cannot even defend yourself properly in what is supposed to be your base, your supossed “safe space”.

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Unfortunately we are going to have to decline your generous offer. Sorcery has been rendered ineffective enough, and unviable as a build as it is. May I suggest you learn to develop working solutions, and shoot it down instead.

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  1. any access to weapons of war require an active coffer to fund said expense (explosives of any kind and t3 alter).
    2)the HP of foundations, walls, and ceilings are 10x stronger than they are now.
    3)if there is no purge path (another reason to have a coffer but also doors), your foundations, walls and ceilings are reduced 100 fold.

Let the fights begin

2 Likes
6

I speak from PVE perspective, but I think it’s the same for PVP.
Want to make base harder to raid ? BUFF ARCHERS.

Have Archers with x5 Damage (compared to now) and place 4-5 Archers per side of your base.

Bases will still be raidable of course, especially with Trebuchets, but that’s what we want, no ?
We want Trecuchets to be vital for sieges on big bases.

After that one could also suggest to have siege animals (like elephants) and something like that, which could be countered by ballistas etc … but first of all, if you want to give home advantage, you have to buff Archers.

If Archers deal DECENT damage (and do notice that x5 is still FAR AWAY from being overpowah, even x10 wouldn’t be OP considering they hit once every 4 shots) then people could not walk careless trhough arrows to place tons of bombs to the walls. When you get killed with 2-3 arrows, you gotte be careful.

Hope this will be give people and devs something to think about.

1 Like
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Archers in pvp are useless.
I completely agree that flying bat and ice bridge has no place in conan pvp.
All I have to do is to land on someones base before raid hour start and archers wont shoot me. I could even place bomb next to thralls on the roof and set them off the minute raid hour starts.
It is very hard to detect that someone has landed on your roof, if outside raid hour. Thralls dont shout.

Flying bat and ice bridge defeat the purpose of anticlimb. Consuming Heart of hero instantly removes all corruption.

With flying bat its not even challenging to land on sky base

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This would make Siptah more popular for PvP again.

Because right now the building spots that are viable are very very limited.

2 Likes
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Archers are useless EVERYWHERE because they shoot blanks.
If they had x10 damage they would be worth it, and still far from being OP.

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If they did 10x the damage they would break PVE.

I just want explosives nerfed to the ground. Without explosives, flying to your roof wouldnt be a threat.

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How would they break PVE ?

They hit once every 4 shots (in best case scenarios), shoot once avery 3-4 seconds and NPCs have fair amount of HPs.
Especially bosses.

At the moment they are terrible. Completely useless. If you put 5 archers on a wall with best stats, best bows and best arrows, they wouldn’t be able to kill a wolf before it reaches the wall.

If we had them with x10 damage, there is a small chance that one of them hit the damn wolf and kills it.

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They would have some value if two conditions were met.

  1. Bring back guarding thralls can attack and damage regardless of raid window but cannot be damaged until raid time. Balance this with guarding can only be done within the build radius of your base(s) so that you don’t get jerks just dropping thralls everywhere.
  2. Setting on your thralls to establish what type of attack they will primarily do. IE light vs heavy attacks and combos and power shots vs spam attacks for arrows.

Thralls would have more bite then.

I think they need to be more effective against doors and placeables but weak against building pieces. You would have to balance this with ensuring people build doors and paths in vs walling themselves off with foundations.

2 Likes
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Flying bat is bad in my opinion because they are really hard to counter.
even with good aim they do move too fast, maybe with a more slow movement you could do something about it.

Ice bridge is not as bad because you can counter them easily, for example, they do need to get closer to their intended target and you can destroy the bridge midway with some explosives arrows so you prevent the enemy from getting in. but yeah they could use them before raid hours to infiltrate your base and bypass your primary defense.

Yes, having a base in siptah is only posible in like 2 or 3 spots, and even those spots are pretty weak.

Nerfing explosives could be a good alternative, because like i said, can and need to be at a safe distance between the attacker and the target.

So you can find cover while safely attacking from a distance so the risk of getting killed by the defender is pretty low.
So what if instead of using explosives as the main attack mechanism we use the ram that the new purge has?.

While i can see the intention of that, it can be a problem if you are not punished for taking and replacing walls back again.
Because people instead of using weak doors they would had no doors at all, they could just get a construction hammer, remove a wall. enter, and put the wall back in. without a restriction mechanism, no one would had a door in the first place.

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That’s why i said this…

Like you said in the beginning…

That’s the story of my life in pvp severs. Even worst to accept raids through purges :rofl:.
But it was ok by me. I only participate to pvp servers to have opponents with better AI.
Yet my base was burned to the ground. No matter if they couldn’t kill me they could raid, steal and destroy everything in it. The more i was killing them, the more they were breaking and stealing. I couldn’t loot my things, i couldn’t accept raid or purge full encumbrance build :man_shrugging:. This game does not give credits to the best fighter, but to thieves and naked bombers.
The one that defends alone all he’ll get is just the cucumber in the end for prize! Yes i stayed alive, yes i killed them several times, but i lost everything.
Again!
I didn’t care, i was playing for this reason only, no other.
And i made friends, lot’s of them apparently!
But!
If they had only doors to enter then the defense would have been so different. Then drawbridges and traps would actually had a meaning, to slow down the raiders and give a chance to the defender to go out and find their bedrolls. The eay it is, you are bombed from everywhere, the only thing remains is to see your whole damn base in ashes and give a battle nonetheless!
Eventually, you get bored of it and you find other reasons to play this game, because pvp worths only with a clan, alone it becomes tiresome!

2 Likes
15

Thank you for the thoughtful and detailed feedback regarding base defense. I think a lot of your concerns are valid and can confirm that these are things the developers are currently working to address. I am happy to pass these suggestions along for consideration.

6 Likes
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Good to hear!
i know how hard it could be to pull off some of the things i am saying.

but the game has a really big map where you could build on, it is a shame that you can only have a “good base” if you have certain spot.

there are many things that can be done to make defending and raiding better for all parties involved.
Attacking right now in really, really strong. :stuck_out_tongue:

i hope they can find a good solution for upcoming updates !

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  1. I would love if we had to use the siege engines more when attacking player bases, instead of the braindead “build explo jars in your inventory and just spam them” tactic. The trebuchet but perhaps a new one added: the battering ram.

Siege engines would have to be built and transported, and require way more logistics.

  1. But also devs would have to fix the flying/undermesh bases also, or any changes on explosives would just make it too hard to attack cheater bases.

  2. No more nerfs on sorcery! I would prefer if sorcery was an actually viable pvp option, particularly the high tier spells lightning storm and call of the dead which are currently just cosmetic (they do nonexistent damage which is silly considering the effort that goes into unlocking them)

1 Like
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One way to insure door usage is to make them the only thing to extend decay. Everything else, no matter how much, would be 1 hour decay. For every door you get 4 hours added. And make it so you cant put walls to block doors off. Can extend the invisible footprint 2 foundation in fornt and back of the opening. Sure there would still be some ways to emclose them, but would be hard to completely no door your base with the hollowed door wyas inside walls

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Some thoughts,

Improvements to siege weapons:

Trebuchet
- Siege boulders have a unique debuff called “Under Siege: Ranged” which will increase damage to the affected structure by 10x and not allow repairs for the duration.
- Siege boulder Under Siege duration does not stack but will refresh time if new application is longer than the current one.
- Siege boulder Under Siege duration will top out at 30 seconds with star metal boulders, but at lowest level stone boulders is only 5 seconds.
- Demon fire barrage will have a 15 second Under Siege and will do something special with its fire field
- I wouldn’t change anything else with the trebuchet, it is not an easy platform to operate and that’s good.

Battering Ram
- Battering ram will have a unique debuff called “Under Siege: Melee” which increase damage to affected structure by 2x and not all repairs for the duration.
- Battering ram is crafted at the trebuchet and creates an inventory weapon with 200 weight and a 15 minute durability timer similiar to summoned equipment that is always timing down.
- Battering ram Under Siege duration is 3 seconds, does not stack but will refresh time if new application is longer than the old one.

Explosive Arrows
- No change to damage or any mechanics

Explosive Jars
- No change to damage or any mechanics

Here are some other changes that would need to be made.

All T1/T2/T3 building pieces (in the building part of the hammer) have their health increased 2x/5x/10x - Exception Gates and Doors

All T1/T2/T3 doors and gates have their health increased 2x/3x/5x

Change the sorcery bats health to 1, this will not change how 95% of players use the bat and skilled ranged players will get the reward of hitting that money shot.

Justification:

Effectively pvp raiding would require a trebuchet to use explosive jars/arrows at the rate they are used now if not it would just be 10x slower but still possible.

While doors are effectively 50% weaker than walls, a player might still have a door to tempt enemies to go that way instead of taking twice as long on a wall.

Offline raiding would be 10x slower without a trebuchet or a little less slower with a battering ram and if using a trebuchet then it would be 100% less sneaky and increase the chance of outside interference.

Defending against a pvp raid would require controlling the area around or demolishing the enemies trebuchet with something like your own trebuchet. If they want to do effective close range damage they will need a battering ram which may cause some self damage to detonate the jars within the 3 seconds before the battering ram debuff expires or pair the ram with explosive arrows. This should encourage skirmishes either at your walls weakpoint (like a gate) or the enemies new FOB/Trebuchet.

More fun stuff:

Coffer perks:

  • Coffer perks are purchaseable at the coffer
  • only 1 can be toggled at a time and the perk system goes on 30 minute cooldown when deactivated, effects are removed if the coffer is demolished (it’s like a 30 second buff refreshed every 28 seconds)
  • whatever the effect it will only work within the radius of the coffer (about a 20 foundation circle)
  • the effect is impacted by the current treasure tier in your coffer from Tier 1 to Tier 10.

Coffer specific currency:
-Change bronze coins to Stygian coins or setite dubloons or whatever (asset is already in the game, just change the name)
-FOB Commanders now drop 3-5 Stygian coins on death only from Tier 6 or above and there is a chance for 1-2 in the chest randomly based on Tier.

Here are a few coffer perks off the top of my head and how to get them (remember all effects scale based on coffer treasure tier 1-10):

Stygian Repairs - All repairs within coffer radius cost 10/20/30/40/50/60/70/80/90/100% less. (pvp focused, pve useful)

Stygian Training - All allied thralls within coffer radius deal 5/10/15/20/25/30/35/40/45/50% more damage. (pve focused, pvp kinda)

Stygian Alchemy - All allied thralls within coffer radius heal for 5/10/15/20/25/30/35/40/45/50% more from healing items (pve focused, pvp kinda)

Stygian Efficiency - All crafting within coffer radius is 5/10/15/20/25/30/35/40/45/50% faster (pvp/pve focused)

Stygian Rituals - Constant corruption gain within coffer radius (.1% - 1% / second) (pvp focused / pve for sorcerers?)

Stygian Scouts - Fully built trebuchet’s within 500-2500 units are visible on the map (this might be hard to do, but would be awesome)

Perk costs to unlock - 50,0000 gold coins and 100 Stygian coins, it would be a knowledge like sorcery spells so nothing would happen if the coffer was lost or demolished.

potato

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thats an interesting concept i would buff the the damage from x2 to x20 because to me, you should be rewarded from taking the risk of going melee.
And make you slower while carrying a Battering Ram.

of course there are many things that could be taken into consideration that involves the pvp raid and defense.
i like your general idea. defending the coffer from the attackers and making them a pvp objective as well. similar to the purge.

Cool stuff.

1 Like