What is PVP in 2020

So I just came back from a break and feel like leave again. What happen to this game. Nobody respect 1v1 anymore and horse are so overlpowered. I wish they never change the roll and made horse only a way of traveling. It breaks the game…

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Respect on a pvp server? Thats news to me. If you roll on any pvp server on any game expect the worst types of people. The ones who enjoy killing in any way possible, there is no fairness, no respect, no morals. Its kill or be killed. Thats the rules of pvp server. If you don’t like it than roll on a non pvp server. Myself I love pvp but I love the type of pvp thats accepted on both sides like say a mmorpg battleground. So i rolled on a PvE conflict server.

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That was pretty much my first thought as well. Respect or honor is the last thing I ever expect in an online PvP environment. Just way too many people in there that get their jollies from being total jerkwads rather than from the gameplay.

But then I was thinking that in MMOs you can often challenge someone to a dual and its something of an unwritten rule that bystanders should butt out. Since the OP specifically says 1v1, I figured maybe he was referring to something like that. You know, stumble onto two people fighting, let them duke it out instead of jumping in the middle of it. But even that much courtesy is too much to expect in a pure PvP setting these days.

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I’m not saying there isn’t any good people on pvp servers… but finding those people are rare. You have a higher chance of running into a jerk than a nice person.

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Sometime in 2005 World of Warcraft introduced battlegrounds for those looking for PVP. This did two things. It separated low levels from high levels, and it made sure each side was evenly matched in the number of players. Due to the rewards given. Players moved on to BGs over open world style.

Before this, PVP was far different. In previous games like Everquest and Ultima Online you had to prepare for the possibility of getting jumped by multiple people, potentially higher level and better geared. This was a fact of life. This was accepted, this was the norm.

Post 2005, players got used to a system that ensured that they didn’t have to take responsibility for getting overwhelmed. When and if it happened in a BG, they could blame the system, their team, or whatever. Everything but themselves.

Since 2005 they have been continuing to do this. Look at this thread and others about people getting hit by multiple people, people with horses, people with this weapon or that. They still rely on a system to make things ‘fair’ instead of themselves.

So what is PVP? It is the same it has always been for over 25 years. This is what PVP is:

PVP is not Fair. PVP means you can be outnumbered, outgeared, and out maneuvered. You can be trounced in seconds if you do not prepare. Or even if you prepare as your opponents counter the very contingency plan you come up with.

PVP is brutal. In earlier games, you could lose everything you carried when you died. Conan is setup like this too. This means if you bring your best stuff, be prepared to bring your best game. And even if you do, be prepared to lose it all as a better opponent simply takes it from you.

PVP is mean. It doesn’t care about your feelings. It doesn’t care that you don’t have much time to play. It doesn’t give a damn about your wife and kids. If you agree to PVP then you agree to be abused, spat out, and left to rot. Those who have spent more effort than you will be superior. Know your place.

Now lets talk about the three aspects of competitive online gaming. These aspects are as follows:

What you know.
What you have.
Who you know.

What you know is the aspect that most people attribute with player ‘skill’. This is your knowledge of the game. Your knowledge of its mechanics. And Knowledge of how all the systems work. It is the culmination of your personal experience, your ability to look up and memorize information, and your ability to execute on it.

What you have is your character, your character’s gear, and represents all the effort you’ve put in the game to grow your ability to compete with others and accomplish goals. Levels, feats, attributes, gear, base, storage, everything that is in game.

Who you know is everyone who you know who can help you achieve goals and further them. This is your friends, your clanmates, your allies, people friendly to you on your server, and so forth. This relies heavily on your ability to coordinate with others, your personal charisma, and your ability to lead or to follow instructions.

All three aspects are required. Lacking in one means you will LOSE to someone who has all three. For example, if you are the best player in Conan. Have the best gear. But are alone. Then a group of players can utterly decimate and zero you out in quick order. And that last one, the third aspect is where people underestimate all the time.

They underestimate it and than cry foul when they neglect it. You need to work with others. You need to form alliances, you need to travel in groups when there is a threat of gank or ambush.

If you’re running around, gathering iron and get hemmed up by three people on mounts. You screwed up. Period. You may be the best player on the server. But you failed. You lacked a mount of your own. And you lacked the numbers to back you up.

Here’s why the three people who ganked you are better players:

They spent time getting the mounts. They spent time out of game coordinating when they would login. They spent time (potentially years) building up friendships and agreements. They synched up their schedules to play together. What did you do? You got off work, you logged in, and figured you’d be safe. You weren’t.

Meanwhile they have spent hours, days, weeks, and years formulating relationships that give them that extra edge. Is it fair? Sure it is. They’ve spent literally thousands of hours helping their gameplay across multiple games, platforms, and spent much of that time practicing. You simply clicked install, and started playing. You may have 500, or 100, or 5000 hours in Conan. But that pales in comparison to their 10,000-40,000+ hours of cooperation in Conan and dozens of other games.

Their effort is rewarded. As it should be. Where is your friends? Did you even bother to make any? If not, why shouldn’t that be treated as someone naked trying to fight someone in epic heavy armor? Its literally the same thing, or even worse.

Start making friends now. Maybe you will be on their level in a year or so. Or at least be able to compete. If you lack the third aspect you are literally YEARS behind other players. Might want to get started. Or go to PVE (at least non-competitively, the aspects can apply to PVE too, you’ve been warned).

What is PVP in 2020? The same as it has always been. Unfair, Brutal, Mean, and Unforgiving. As it always should be.

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And no fun. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
(that’s a joke… put that spear down)

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heh I find it fun when its more balanced / fun. When a system is involved like battlegrounds. Halo matchmaking what ever. But world pvp is just who can be the bigger jerk / alpha male. Only a select few win where the rest suffer in our short time spans as humans it is a waste to to try to compete like that. Cause if you lose you aren’t happy and if you arent happy its not time worth spent.

Now that’s a very interesting point.
The question is: do you have to win all the time to be happy? Or do you just need a fair chance at winning? Considering you can’t win all the time (except of you’re the absolute best). Is the game worth playing?
It’s a legit question that I’ve been asking myself for some time. I noticed that there are games I enjoy playing until I die, then i just stop and never play them again, because i consider it’s not worth trying again. What do you think a game needs in order to push you to get better and still let you enjoy it?

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I get the joke, but I have tons of fun with PVP. Admittedly I can’t do real PVP for extended times as it does get exhausting. But every so often I get the bug and jump in with both feet.

This is not true for me. I’m unhappy when I am winning. If I’m winning and no one is capable of beating me, then I’ve peaked and then what is the point? But if I’m trying my hardest and there’s still someone who can beat me. Then I can get better. There’s a reason to put in the effort, a reason to keep going.

Whether its more gear, getting better at the game, or simply raising a group to challenging theirs. That is what is fun for me.

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Games should be challenging and fun. Challenge makes us better and want to perform better. But not to the point of frustration. PvP servers often have toxic communities with the challenge as is. Its a hostile environment that is not good for any one persons mental health. Know that we all have a limited time here on this planet and that time should have value to you. Are you enjoying what you do? Does it make you better? Is it worth while? Think of the next year with this situation in mind will it matter? Or are you simply just wanting the time to pass? If its just passing the time should it be causing you stress and unenjoyment? Is it recharging your batteries or simply draining them? Is there something else that would put more spark in your life or in your joy? Ask yourselves these questions and take it from there.

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Yeah that’s all good reasoning really… What I still can’t understand is why I keep dropping the other games without trying harder, but i can’t stop playing Conan Exiles for more than a month without inevitably coming back to it. It’s hard to tell what this game keeps bringing to me at this point

I agree entirely, they added mounted combat with no respect to balance.

Yes the game has been unbalanced before, spear meta etc, but just as they were opening up the viability of other weapons they introduced horses.

Then there is the whole consumables revamp which no one asked for ever making a mockery of the last element of skill in the game.

Gone is the balancing of your stamina via dodge roll, gone is the managing of your heals, all skill aspect of the game has been removed and supplanted with horses and numbers, why should one skilled player be able to beat 3 like the old days ? Because they put the time, effort and applied their natural ability to learning it.

I really wish they would Bring in “Conan Classic servers” Spear meta days were far from perfect, thrall AI was non responsive as hell, But I had more fun with that, despite the buggy mess then what we are left with, that game back then had potential.

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Yeah we did.

You all just didn’t take such posts seriously.

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Well, that’s true – and I think that’s the real problem. “They introduced horses” and then STOPPED. They didn’t include any counters to horses. No real way to defend or unhorse a mounted attacker. It would have been fine to add horses if that game ALSO included balance for the unhorsed player to react and counter, too (maybe a planted spear into the ground or give stun arrows the ability to knock the rider out of his saddle or something).

Adding horses was not the problem – adding horses without counter balancing the combat was the problem. And the good news is – they can still fix it if they just finish adding appropriate counters to horse combat.

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Wait for patch 2.2 regarding PvP.

If you haven’t noticed in the versioning already, they are turning Conan Exiles into Conan Exiles 2 since Isle of Siptah. No. Since the mounts upodate. The game is currently in a “merging” state, not done, not balanced. We are all BETA testers for Conan Exiles 2.0.

The good thing is, we are getting different/new mechanics, the bad thing is we are losing the old game.

Funcom should’ve made a cut and created a new game instead IMO.

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where is the source for this?

The “counter of horses” …
this is a delicate argument, something I already faced in an old discussion here on the forum.
I’ll try to explain myself and being clear (english not my native language I apologize for that)… adding a counter for horses (and maybe horses in the first place?) would need something that improves your gear and thus your “relationship with the battle”,
As occured in human history to counter the improving art of war you need better gears, better equipments but, most of all, better ways to relate with this skills.
As long you try to add more technique or else more “technics” you push the meta-battle away from the core of the game itself.
If I insert a “gun” in the game I create unbalance, at least in the beginning. because it would be a tool that is “too futuristic” not only for the lore but also for the battle core itself, but if we analize what happened in history (I am over simplifying the concept) guns appeared to contrast horses/better and heavier armors and so on…
So when you introduce horses as mounts and as tools of war (legit) you are also “modernizing” the battle core of the game itself, because you are introducing an “advanced art of war” in the game.
Of course it is totally fair in the optic of lore because horses are well… horses so it is natural to mount and use 'em as best you can do, but in this way you moved the battle core from “an age to another”.
And maybe to fight horses you will need more sophisticated weapons or art but will be those new techs still “barbarian”? Muskets, crossbows, new features int he art of war are natural progression in the human’s war history but this is a barbarian game and you have to “stop” at a certain point.
Maybe horses are already a line that should not have been crossed, because they moved the battle core from “hunga munga battles” to more complicated and more technical fights.
This is an argument for the future, adding carts or moving veichles would be fair an intriguing, the wheel is a pretty quite-old tool that is non existing in Conan but it would be a destructive mechanic for how the game is build.

I’m not sure I managed to make myself clear but I suppose horses should have never been implemented, not for the fight at least, because the moved a step forward into the future the battle, if I have a gun why the hell should I return to a sword? Why should I fight on foot when I can mount and charge you down?
That is, in my opinion, the problem: Funcom inserted a tool (horses) that will need more tools to be fairly faced, but again: this is a barbarian game, what it will be if I get laser beamed in a year or two?
:slight_smile:

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I don’t think that’s required; certainly, that’s one type of counter. But I’m thinking more in utilizing what we already have (such as new animations or different attack option).

Borrowing from real life, how did a foot soldier defend against a cavalry charge. The Frankish Heavy Charge (which is your typical ‘knight in shining armor’ on horseback) was devastating until soldiers learned how to counter with pikes. Light cavalry (such as mounted archers) were great at picking off skirmishers, but it was the knights in heavy armor that were the ‘tanks’ of their day. Strategies such as killing the horse (which really cut into your ‘spoils of war’) was one such necessary tactic to unhorse an opponent. Another technique was to stack infantry close together so the charge couldn’t make it all the way through one’s infantry lines. Or even consider Napoleon’s defeat at Waterloo as another example where British infantry units used diamond formations to break up Napoleon’s cavalry (using pikes and shield cover). In these cases, the better ‘gear’ was on the opposing side, yet good tactics can overcome ‘better gear.’

Right now, our game (simulation) has no way for a player to plant his spear into the ground in any anti-cavalry maneuver. So options from real life are not yet available to us in game. And IMO, that’s what’s missing.

And yes, I would love to see chariots added to the game as well (but with ‘counters’ for infantry as well such as being able to ‘turtle up with a good shield wall’ defense).

You triggered me again, sorry :smiley:

Conan Exiles is 100% NOT a simulation. You have too many fantasy elements in it. And this is typical for a game.

At the core, the distinction is that simulations are about things (or systems) and how they behave, and games are about a fun user experience.

https://www.edutopia.org/sims-vs-games#:~:text=The%20difference%20between%20computer%20simulations,about%20a%20fun%20user%20experience.&text=When%20game%20features%20are%20combined,the%20results%20can%20be%20powerful.

Doesn’t mean we can not use real life tactics and simulate them in the game

as long as they are fun!

Didn’t mean to trigger you. The statement was not intended in any way to declare or define or describe Conan Exiles. I was only trying to post about how the goal could be achieved without additional or superior “gear.”