This would be the same as we are having now, tons of weapons available but only a handfull is used because they provide the meta. Do you really think that someone will use a saddle he easily get kicked off? I do not. As long as the additional damage, horses provide, don´t get removed, it doesn´t matter how manny saddles you will introduce. There will be a meta and this meta will be used.
Fair enough - the point with the idea was I’d got the impression from reading PVPers comments that the scout saddle is a particular problem because it grants so much maneuverability along with all the other mounted benefits. If that’s not an issue, then my suggestion won’t fix it…
I’m going to throw this suggestion in there. Its probably needed for PVE as well. But attacking on the mount should cost stamina. Free attacks is a bit much for both PVE and PVP.
That is probably something that should be implemented before even discussing a counter.
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Agreed. Free stamina for mounted attacks is op (and IMO unnecessary) - it’s not like you wouldn’t be using effort to swing your weapon around. And I can’t see any way such a change would negatively impact PVE or PVP (maybe I’m missing something 
).
I also think toning down the hit boxes for mounted attacks would be a good change - if anything surely it should take more precision to hit accurately while sitting on hundreds of pounds of independently moving animal? I don’t fight from horseback much (don’t enjoy it, and in singleplayer I don’t have to…), but I couldn’t be bothered to dismount to deal with a few hyenas the other day and noticed that as I swung at the one down to my side I also killed one that was a good horse-length or more ahead of me - I’ve no idea how the weapon was supposed to have reached that far…
I don’t know, it does sound like an interesting idea. Right now everyone I know uses scout saddles. Why? Because you can actually steer your horse properly and you consume endurance much more slowly. Now imagine if that came with a comparative decrease in damage and an increased likelihood of being unhorsed by attacks.
It wouldn’t solve the whole problem, but it would at least give the “meta saddle” some serious drawbacks. It’s not just the saddles, but those are a good example of adding different variants of a gameplay element without proper differentiation. They need to give each variant a compelling incentive to be used and a serious drawback. Otherwise, you end up with several unused variants and one that everyone uses.
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Exactly 
I mean, I pretty much exclusively use scout saddles even in singleplayer - they’re just superior. That’s what got me thinking it could be an area for rebalance.
Combine some sort of saddle rebalance, with a damage rebalance and a stamina usage rebalance and maybe it starts getting towards shifting the PVP meta (which, form the outside perspective, looks like an area with a clear issue - forget realism for a moment, fun comes first and if there’s only one meta option then there’s just less gameplay…). Of course, by the sound of things, then there’s the cats…
It’ll be really interesting to see what this combat update brings - see whether any of our speculations match up with any of the coming changes - or did the devs come up with a completely different approach to the issues
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To be honest I think it would solve a major issue in both playstyles. Of course I’m speaking of the horse’s stamina. Something like 75 or 100 stamina an attack (giving 6-8 attacks) would be a good start. This way if someone goes in swinging and the guy on foot dodges a bit. Then attacks, they have a good chance of dismounting the rider. Right now to have a chance you have to catch them after they sprinted a bit, which no one does in combat unless they’re running away.
For lances, aiming the lance should drain that stamina relatively quickly, maybe 75-100 per half second. Requiring the user to aim the lance only when about to attack. Again if they miss, they’re vulnerable to counter attack.
Hell this alone would mean less need for any sort of new counter. But still grant all the advantages a mounted user is entitled. They would just need to be smart about their attacks.
Like I said, I win buttons people can giggle at are not needed. Whether they be for people on foot or on horseback. And right now stam-free attacks are giggle I-win buttons for the most part.
Admittedly the person in open ground on foot with my suggestion is still at a disadvantage. But they’ll have somewhat of a fighting chance. If they see the horseback rider recklessly attacking, they know to hit them as fast as they can to dismount the rider.
Taemien, you’re an intelligent, knowledgeable person and I respect your experience in and understanding of the game mechanics, especially when it comes to PvP. But here you’re encountering the very challenge with which I have been trying to instruct people for many months now. The way you communicate affects how your message gets through.
Most people cannot distance themselves from their emotions and preconceived notions so as to approach a subject objectively. You can’t expect people to listen your ideas purely rationally, especially if you come across as, well, someone sitting on a high horse (I had to go there, sorry). That sort of communication leads to precisely the phenomenon you’re witnessing here - people arguing with you because they don’t like your tone (or you), not because they necessarily disagree with your points. In fact, it doesn’t even matter what your point is because they want to disagree with you.
If you want to convince people that you’re right - try to do it with a tone that doesn’t provoke an emotional counter-response. As you notice, when Roche presents the same argument, but with a less condescending tone, he gets better results.
Discussions about PvP don’t need to turn into PvP fights.
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The scout saddles for horses are the current equivalent of light armor back then in 2018. (Though light armor was more OP compared to it’s heavy counterpart).
No one uses the other saddles. Yes you can tank a lance hit and not get instantly dismounted, but you can’t compete against a scout saddle, because it has better mobility.
The AoE of the attacks from a spear when on mount is literally easy mode compared to what we have on the ground.
About general PvP in Conan:
I have observed this so far: People have a hard time getting their attacks to connect. The 1h axe is very popular for PvE, because it has AoE, hyper armor, shield smash and decent damage with 2 bleed debuffs in the combo chain. But it is almost useless in PvP because of it’s low range. Players are constantly in motion, making them harder to get hit. The best weapon to hit running players is still the spear. But the hit box is very small, so good aim and prediction is needed.
So the horse is a welcoming gift for those players, who lack aim and prediction. It has a bigger hitbox, both the horse for the knockdown and the spear/sword/axe. Another solution for players with bad aim/prediction are cat pets because of their ability to easily knock down players, so they become immobile and easier to hit. Perfect for the usual 1H axe PvE player.
This is also the reason why Funcom reduced the roll length, slowed it down and added the potion animation! Because it is now easier to hit people.
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??? hmmmmm???..
On my side, to fight I use only the heavy sadlle on a specific horse… to run fast and far away, I use the light one on an other horse…
for the moment I didnt use the midlle sadlle (maybe you need to hit one time with a lance and run quicly away to come back??? or maybe you want to build a horse archer able to fight a bit in melee,)
Mater of tastes… or tests ?
just some points:
A)No drawbacks for the rider?:
they fight equally on foot on broken ground:
-the rider has already made the effort to gain an advantage in open field (see the advice of Taemien, time, skillpoints etc)
-I do hope and believe that he could fight equally when dismounted…
-the horse is left somewhere, it doesnt fight and can be killed. Without its rider, the warhorse is only a prey (this is not another thrall, he just stays there, flee a bit when hit. The death of a good lvled warhorse his the risk for the rider… maybe as for the loss of a lvl 20 Dalinsia… but maybe the Dalinsia will f–ck the ennemy before her death, my horse will only be slaughtered)
B) No advantage on foot in open ground?
… survivalists warriors… hmmmmm???
Do you know you already have today a lot of things to protect you against horses in open ground. Things that will protect you on one side and maybe kill the horse. You can use it TODAY in the open field!! you will need to adapt and change a bit the way to organize war against a cavalry party.
C) In the end… and so… what if a noob on a horse is able to kill a very experimented Alpha warrior who fight on foot !!!
Such a noob should be regarded as a hero and I will give him a cigar, a glass of wine and more!!!
Because, and again:
-the depletion of PVP servers is not related to horses, but to alpha clans and players dominating the whole thing and killing all their preys. How could we imagine these preys will stay to play with us?
-if the horse is a way to add a bit of BALANCE between experimented guys and noobs… so… what???
Best Regards guys
dear Sir
I hope you speak there about the heavy knight lance only…
I dont know if everyone really knows the exact disadvantage of using today such a lance.
I dont know if everyone makes the difference inbetween the different uses of:
-javelins
-spears
-pikes
-lances
best Regards
You don´t get my point. The scout saddle is the meta right now, because it gives the best advantages. No matter how many new reworked saddles Funcom would introduce, there will always be another “meta saddle”. Even if it gives just a small advantage. People will find it out in pvp and use it. Its been this way since years. And Funcom is not known as someone who can do balancing stuff well.
So my point is simple: don´t introduce more stuff that will change nothing in the end.
We are sitting here for months now, discussing horse balance while the leaddesigner is talking in streams about: “people will be easier to kill in the future…”. Seriously, wtf. Its not that you are not able to twoshot people already. How more easy do they want it for people to get killed?
At this point and after I saw what happend with the last big “economy” update, I would like to see Funcom not trying to “balance” pvp any further. Because they don´t understand how their game works in real environments. With every attemp they destroy more than they fix. So just let it be like it is and call it a day.
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I have the feeling that the point of wiew are very very different. For good reasons, or for unsaid reasons etc…
I am afraid that any decision will let near 50% ppl unhappy.
That is why I wonder if, for PVP server, it could be possible to allow the admin to choose:
-" horses allowed in PVP fights"
-“horses not allowed in PVP fights”
But, in my mind, this thingies about horses will not avoid PVP servers attrition or depletion…
Best Regards Gentlemen
Nuuuu you see if they don’t focus on PVP then they will focus on PVE! Don’t threaten us with that 
You keep the focus over there with you! Please sacrifice yourselves xD
Joking aside, PVP is never going to be completely balanced, there will always be a meta and every player is different and plays different so what could be considered “balanced” for one player might not be for someone else, the best Funcom can do is “try” to make it more balanced and fun for as many players as possible =D
They already do this. Nearly all private PVP servers do not allow horses in PVP. Or pets for that matter.
But to be honest I don’t think the point of views are that different among the majority. There is going to be a minority that likes their OP meta and wants to fight to keep it, and those who want everything nerfed to oblivion, but they should be dismissed (to those who don’t like my tone towards these people, stuff it, seriously). But they are honestly a minority.
The two legit camps we have are those who want a fighting chance. And those who enjoy mounted combat and wouldn’t mind seeing some sensible changes. I don’t actually believe its that hard to get consensus there. Just so long as we’re not giving easy no effort I-win counters.
Heck my stamina suggestion might actually be enough. I definitely wouldn’t want to see it AND a counter hit the same patch cycle. That’s taking a hammer to the problem.
Just Lances, the weapon that can only be used on Horses.
I do get your point, but I think you don’t get mine. Take a look rock-paper-scissors. You can’t win by using just rock. Or paper, or scissors.
Now, if you can forgive me for using a ridiculous oversimplification: imagine if you took rock-paper-scissors to Conan Exiles. You equip scissors and run around the map. If you see a guy equipped with paper, you’re gonna chase him. If you see a guy equipped with rock, you’re gonna run away. If all three of you run into each other, it’s gonna get hectic 
Right now, the saddles don’t follow the rock-paper-scissors model. Instead, they’re pebble-rock-boulder. Oh, they were certainly meant to have strengths and weaknesses, but everyone can see things haven’t turned out that way.
It’s really because of the way Funcom does things. The idea is there, it has potential, but they just don’t put enough effort into it. They release things that aren’t properly tested or polished – basically unfinished – and they leave them like that until they turn into a dumpster fire they can’t ignore, and then they either nerf them or release a new thing that makes the old one obsolete (or simply draws all the attention away).
You said it yourself:
Unfortunately, that’s true. But if we take that to heart, then we’re wasting our time discussing these things. (To be fair, we probably are.) The best we can hope for is a giant smash with the nerf-hammer and a new meta arising afterwards.
So I would say that I agree with you, in a way, to a degree. But…
I don’t want to agree with that. Here’s the way I see it: we can all do what you proposed and stop wasting our time here. Or we can pretend that our suggestions matter – which they don’t, except by accident – and that Funcom will have the resources and capacity to implement some more nuanced balancing measures than what they’ve done so far.
Let’s face it, they already have their combat balance update in the pipe. We might as well have fun discussing imaginary future changes while we wait for whatever insanity lurks beyond the horizon 
2 Likes
Ofc, there will always be a meta in PVP but the diffrence is THE meta, this horse meta is one of the most OP metas that existed in this game. And has been like this since they removed the 4th perk in accuracy. Only reason FC didnt got as many complains back then was because bow did sick damage to heavyarmor players wich most often used the horse. And u needed like 4 arrows to kill them. It was still in advantage of the horse player, but it was still more balanced between these 2.
With that said im not saying that’s the solution in the balanacing part. I would like to see damage reduce and so on horseback, because u will still have the advantage in speed, and I dont see that u need anything else.
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I could do a whole thread on this one alone. Let me say I agree and leave it at that lol. And usually when I do make suggestions its always from the position that everyone is already at 60 because I just see 1-59 as a tutorial or baptism by fire (depending on server).
I’ve actually been able to get results out of Funcom by doing it this way in the past. Some of the people in this thread have been offput by me in a few other threads in the last month, though this is nothing new as I’ve been doing this on and off for a little over two years. But you’re right, I have no intention of trying to convince the target of a debate, that’s up to them if they want to change their view or not, I’m not interested in doing it for them. As long as the audience (in this case Funcom) can be convinced then I think its better for the game as a whole.
The way I look at it is Funcom will improve the game to everyone’s liking and it will thrive. Or they won’t and they’ll consider development finished and move on. In the first case we get new stuff from Funcom. In the latter case the game development ends and modders will take over (since they know there will be no more updates to break their systems). In either case I benefit from it.
So hopefully urging Funcom to put both feet in for good or ill will give one of those two outcomes. Even if it feels a bit off, offensive, or combative to other forum users. If anything, everyone will agree I’m at least honest. I don’t mince words. Some like it, some don’t.
If I were to say anything that irks me, is the ones who cry foul when my attention is on their words or against an opinion they have or share with someone that is the target. But they like and fav my posts when I do it to someone they disagree with. They know who they are. I won’t go into that much further.
And as for what I enjoy? Fixes, features, and changes that involve subjects I’ve been apart of. That’s mostly why I am here.
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The problem isn’t META, it is that if the META is 100% dependent on its tools, with little contribution of practice and skill to use it. Horse PVP is such. Raise a horse, throw the saddle on it, get a lance and a spear and then farm non horse riders all day, and try and get first hit on horse riders. I believe a level 20 could win a fight against a level 60 on horse. HAve not tested if players level even matters in horse v horse PVP. Be a nice test to shoe that the player is a bystander in the actual outcome of a horse pvp fight.
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