just my point of wiew about that…
Should a player win an encounter on skill alone, or being better prepared? Or some combination of the two?
In a good PvP game there are multiple metas because there are different roles or play styles that players can choose from.
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And that’s how it was before mounts came into the picture.
If u PVP’ed against a good team, u needed atleast 1 or 2 guys with bow, u did different moves depending on your enemies. Now you only need a group with horses. And hopefully your team is the ones that gets those first hits that will knock your enemy off the horse.
I would still like to see damage from horse should be equal to a groundplayer. With out all these 4th-hit glitch wannabe throwbackmeta.
For me the speed advantage the guy on horse will have is just enough. You wont be able to run away from it, but u will have a chance fighting against it.
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I noticed me on a horse lvl 20 one time a skeleton bowed me off it, no idea where he hit me, but it is possible.
Low horse stamina. You get knocked off when your horse runs out of stamina when getting hit.
Go into Coop with a friend, spawn a horse, level it up with “GiveFollowerXP” command, then set the game mode to “Decadent” (do not restart) and let your friend hit the horse, whilst you sit on the horse. Observe the stamina damage you receive and that you will eventually get knocked off.
Irrevelant for you. And who are you. Never heard of you anywhere. You are nothing more than anybody in this thread so please stop talking as if your better or think you know more or event that your opinion is more important. It might not be your intention but it surely sound like it.
For the fact that you think that you played more your are dead wrong my man. Just myself have 5k hours in Conan played in over 50 different server been alpha in most of them with my clan. So please don’t tell me that kinda stuff again. It just makes you sound like a joke.
I’m not saying that you don’t know what your talking about. I surely think you do. But it’s a human thing to think and see things differently Wich makes it completely normal for me, him and her to have a different pov on the subject and doesn’t make us less “experience”.
Ah I forgot no offence.
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A combination of the two. But horse mounting take no preparation and is skilless.
When mount first came out it took me 10 Minutes to master the horse. Ever since nothing has changed. I ride my horse and kill people. If I don’t have my horse well it’s gg.
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Preparation is the most important thing. Even skill can be included within the preparation spectrum, because training to become good at something is a type of preparation.
The PvP design choice made by the Funcom Developers was very unfortunate.
I even understand their intention in wanting to narrow the skill gap between older players and newer players to give them a chance, but what they did about PvP did not help at all in that respect and still took away the good part that was there.
The Horse is an easy resource to obtain. To take a horse in a short time and master its combat, it takes around 30 minutes for a player who has just started the game if he has a teacher.
However, a dominant clan will have dozens of horses up to level 20, several tigers and thralls level 20.
A novice who enters this game and realizes that with only 1 hit he loses the fight and that there is no counterplay or way to escape from the opponent, he loses total interest in the game …
The ability to hone your skill at something is what holds people back. You start playing a game and you want to beat that tough boss, reach the end of the game or when the game is competitive, you want to learn to play better, reach a higher rank and things like that. When you don’t have these elements, the game becomes sterile and empty.
What happens is that Funcom developed for a long time a combat system, with several weapons, armor and finally ended up making them all useless when introducing the horse and then allowing you to walk with the horse + follower.
Even horse saddles make no difference. You have the light saddle (maneuver) that is better and the others are useless.
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It really always happens to have a META in games.
But take for example the MOBAS where you have a meta for the midlaner, a meta for the carry and etc …
Or the example of MMORPGs, where you have a meta for those who play tankers, a meta for those who play dps, a meta for healers and etc …
It turns out that Conan does not have these different possibilities. They end up funneling a cool game that always has only one meta. it was the hammer meta, the spear, the jhebbal claw, the bow, the almighty thrall and now the horse + tiger.
The right thing would be to have some possibilities for there to be roles within the game.
ex:
- Horses to be used as a specific role and not everyone on horseback: Chasing enemies, finishing enemies, reaching the opponent’s back line and etc.
- Light armor with spear / dagger to chase
- Medium armor for collision combat but with some agility.
- Heavy armor to break up formations and tank.
- Shields could have an active parry mechanic.
- Weapons should have counter mechanics:
ex: spears countering axes / 2h sword countering daggers and etc. - Bows are in a good spot today. if it weren’t for the horses + tigers, he would be more present in PvP.
- Saddles should give more significant advantages and disadvantages to justify their use. Light saddle ends up being the dominant in 99% of cases.
- Perhaps the heavy saddle could tank more damage from the move, or the rider could deal more damage while riding one.
- The light saddle should be just for scout, the rider should fall from it with extreme ease to compensate for his speed and maneuverability
- And the medium saddle would be the equivalent of light military cavalry. With resistance, but greater speed of response.
PS *** Some weapons have a collision box that is too small (like the dagger), you don’t hit the enemy even if you’re stuck to it.
PS2 **** Some weapons like “Yog’s Touch”, “Red Mother’s bow” completely breaks the game’s balance.
If you notice, all axes have low armor penetration and in compensation their animation montage has a long period of hyper armor, which makes their attacks cancel the attacks of most other weapons.
Otherwise, the axe manages to pass the shield, bleed and knock the opponent down on the 4th hit.
So an axe like “Yog’s Touch” with 40% armor penetration, doesn’t make any sense in the game’s design.
PS3 ***** The “yog’s Touch” has a 14% chance of dropping if I’m not mistaken. the drop rate is 100% on the boss, but he divides the probability with 6 other weapons.
PS4 ****** Funcom remade the healing mechanics, but maintained some items that heal in the same way as before (Mitra’s Ambrosia). so what’s the point of this?
I’ll be honest, I don’t understand this. And just so we’re on the same page, are you speaking of newer players using horses against older players?
In my experience, newer players, as well as what I call lower tier players (and for the record I’m not taking a dig here at anyone here, I’m speaking of friends who are just not good at this game) do not take to mounted combat well. Of course these same players cannot survive 5 seconds in PVP even against average players.
But that’s an issue with them and not the control systems in place. I’ve found the horses to be pretty intuitive. And of course I agree that they are a bit broken. Though I believe much of this has to do with their free attacks.
I don’t believe mounted users are hitting with 100% of their attacks. When they miss, its just a miss. But an unmounted combatant misses, it still cost stamina. Stamina they use for not just attacking, but sprinting and dodging.
Right now horses only use stamina for sprinting and for the ridder’s ability to remain in the saddle. The last effect is offset by the fact that most attacks hit the horse instead of them.
But if a mounted combatant paid stamina for each attack, and a significant amount. Then they would need to time their attacks rather than spam them. This in turn would make fighting a mounted combatant while on foot a little safer. There would be a point to using dodges and such, and perhaps even effect a meta where you try to bait the mounted combatant to attack.
They still have an advantage. Initiative is on their side. They can choose to simply withdraw. But there has to be some benefit to bringing a horse after all.
So far I’ve not seen anyone disagree with stamina cost on attacks. Not from people who hate horses and not from people who love them. I think we might have common ground. Which would be a great first step.
I want to point out that its not a miracle fix. But I definitely think it is a good step. I think any counter added BEFORE such a change would be awkward. And to be honest, its needed for the PVE side of things. Mounted combat against world bosses is probably the most cheesiest thing I’ve seen since falling damage being used on them.
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DAding stamina cost to the rider’s attacks makes perfect sense.
Even keeping the Lance pointed should consume stamina in the same way when you charge a heavy bow attack.
Another point to consider is the attribute build. A character who decides to fight only on the horse, can dump grit and even encumbrance and distribute the points in strength and vitality.
The attacks consuming stamina, would cause the player to rethink the build and reallocate points in grit, which helps a little more in balancing too.
But I will be honest with you. More unbalanced than mounted combat, are the Tigers …
And the worst is when you bring the two together. Tigers + Horses. The PvP looks ridiculous.
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I disagree entirely, infact game has (exiled lands map) penalized new players in a fundamental progression way by removing all the skill.
I could teach someone the basics of being an effective rider in minutes, if you took the spear meta days as an example that took many battles to become an expert, as you had to, Learn how to judge distances, Learn how to manage stamina, Judge distances with combat rolls, manage heals.
New players used to actually have a better experience, if you join a new server now and encounter a level 60 on horseback you will die 100%, you can’t weigh your options, flee or fight with better skill or pure luck.
Being able to effectively stam manage and flee an opponent was a great ability for new players, even hiding was effective, turning sharp corners, and you had as much fun in my experience being the hunter as you did the hunted.
The healing has in fact ruined the progression system to as you would normally start out and go north food being heals you could find it anywhere and it would advance from steak to haunch the further you go, Now you have to immediately go for the aloe vera across the lake and it binds you to there for a long while, being the only place to get viable heals craft potions and wraps which take an excessively long time to make.
And they clearly break all the flow of any kind of combat opposed to the old food system, which yes consumables needed a revamp, but not this in any capacity was warranted.
The decisions overall are fundamentally out of line with both what players are used to, changing a game so fundamentally and consistently that has been out years is very damaging, rather than fix and balance numerous bugs they introduce a new overall direction for things such as healing which as far as I can tell no one asked for.
And overall what players want I sincerely think deviates from this direction, people aren’t this critical because they hate the game, but they sure don’t like what it is becoming with its consistent wasted potential and unbalanced design.
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I had an idea up a few posts where using a lance would cost somewhere in the realm of 75-100 stamina per .5/s
This is something I should have considered. When I speak of using stamina, I mean the horse’s stamina. So kudos to bringing this up. I’m going to address this further down. You’ve got alot of good points in such a small post. I want to get to them all.
Again agreed. And I had an idea earlier up as well on this. For thralls it was to remove the MDM/RDM stats from damage calculations against players. For pets it was to reduce their base damage and add MDM/RDM modifiers to bring their damage back to where it is now. But against players it would be omitted like with thralls.
The end result is the followers still do their normal damage in PVE. They still do normal damage to each other. But they cannot 1-2 shot a player anymore. So when you encounter another player, you have to decide to send you pet on them or their pet. If you send it on them, they give you some bonus damage and pressure but you may have their pet on you too. But if you send it after their pet, you have to have confidence your pet can survive it till you win the engagement. Or maybe a mixture of both as the fight progresses.
I have an idea for the attribute allocation. As I said I’d come back to that.
The idea is to push the attributes for damage an such to the horse. So the horse’s STR applies bonus damage not the rider’s. This is obviously going to cause some wonky builds. So the idea here is if someone does in fact go full blown stats for horse back riding. They can. In this case it would be straight VIT for their own health.
This puts them in a weird situation on foot if they don’t put points in STR or GRT. They become spongy and tanky on the ground, but cannot inflict much. So it might be better to simply make a ground build and hope you get a good horse for combat.
The idea is your personal attributes affect ground fighting. Horse attributes affect horse combat. So while a gathering build could potentially be a dangerous fighter on a great horse. If he’s unhorsed (which is more likely with horse stamina being used for attacks), he becomes a literal loot piñata.
Who doesn’t like popping 50 ENC users for loot?
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Cleaning up some posts. You can disagree on subjects without resorting to personal attacks. <3
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Hehe, yesterday I had this kind of “PvP fight”. The guy was running around all the time, spamming ‘E’ on me to send his sabre tooth. I hit him, then I get jumped and lose 50% of my HP and get knocked down. When I was knocked, this was the only time he (the player) dared to attack me.
Good thing was, he was too dumb to get out of the stagger chain after rolling (he had medium armor), so he died (and also the sabre tooth didn’t knock me for once).
And this is so sad. People can’t fight. They just send AI after you. Or use horses.
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that is pretty funny, in the early days of horses we had a guy that would never fight on foot so much so we would joke he was crippled.
it was pathetic really, we even surrounded his base completely and trebbed it down to nothing, he simply would never fight on foot not even to defend his base, but loved attacking people on horseback before they even loaded in on obelisk or on open ground (around the summoning place etc)
And still calling themselfes PVP players. I gotta feeling that everyone who’s for to keep horses like they are now is just like that guy u fought, but acting like they are actually good at the game and try to say to known good players that they are bad at PVP. Wich makes this whole thing hilarious.
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Crash server, get infinite attributes. When you get attacked crash server using in game mechanics again. gg they can’t raid if you keep crashing for the whole raid time. sick mad dogga pvp
Agree with you 100%