What Makes Zombies So Special? - Another Steps-On-Toes Rant

“Be the hero of your story, not your thralls”, that was the idea pitched by the developers during the original 3.0 dev stream. But all that’s happened is replace thralls, with zombies.

The authority tree does what it’s built to do – Make your followers stronger. And even gives you the nifty option to have two followers follow you, at the cost of all the bonuses they receive from authority; seems pretty fair doesn’t it? If you want to have 2x the meat shields, you end up having to choose to ‘nerf’ them a little bit to the base stats you levelled them with. Which isn’t a huge deal considering you can run around in Skelos Cult Master, and pop Hearty Feasts and Tears of Gullah to give them a WHOPPING 74% damage increase. (50% from armor + 12% from food + 12% from potion). All seems fine here, with the obvious exception of sabretooths that are being given a slight nerf in Age of Sorcery part 2.

The issue comes when you have all of the benefits of the final Authority perk (+20 to all stats) for your followers, and can run around with multiples of them, without the hinderance of the War Party perk – AND all of the bonuses from points in authority. Instead of 12-16k health Beastmaster Teimos’, we now have the fun new conundrum of not one, not two, but THREE fully buffed meat shields that have +20 to all stats, a 74% damage increase from buffs, and a whopping 22-26k health points – all while still having enough perk points to make sure you don’t fall over like a leaf in the wind, and can still hit for a decent amount of damage.

Zombies are obtained through sorcery, which from the way the developers spoke during the initial 3.0 livestream was supposed to have the give-and-take of making you stronger, while making you more fragile because you lose health and stamina from corruption while you’re utilizing the corrupted perks system. But there is no give-and-take with zombies, it’s all give and no glory. Let’s ignore the glaring issue that’s being resolved in AoS Part II with them currently being able to equip weapons and armor and focus on a phrase I heard during the AoS Part II livestream regarding the new sorcerer encounters they’re adding to the game: “The sorcerers themselves are fairly weak, as with sorcery their minions are supposed to be their big source of protection.” (Paraphrased)

Sorcerers minions are supposed to be the big danger when encountering them, that’s what I heard out of that statement; a give-and-take as it were. But player sorcerers don’t need to be corrupted to cosplay as the hit TV series ‘The Walking Dead’, and can utilize the beefiest followers we’ve ever seen to play the field and exacerbate the previous issue of a 1v2 against a powerful thrall and their owner, into a 1v4.

Even with adding a requirement to corrupt yourself in order to utilize zombies, there isn’t a huge downside to sorcery; not nearly as hefty as the developers insinuated. – Just take Steel Thewed, the 20 Grit perk, and corrupt yourself to split damage with your followers (The Flesh Bond perk in corrupted Authority). You can always survive seven hits from another player, and the reduced health pool makes healing even easier as you can use a singular Concentrated Aloe Potion to heal yourself to full health, and tick back up that four-hit threshold. The give-and-take there is the risk of your followers dying from taking too much of your damage; but that doesn’t really happen when your followers have more health than the Red Mother in the Unnamed City. And even if they DO die, there’s no waiting for some chance respawn, and waiting another 8-25 hours for another thrall to break and spending several hours levelling the thrall, crafting it a new set of armor, and giving it a weapon that can do decent damage – they’re instantly replaceable by knocking out a Relic Hunter Treasure Seeker, and waiting a short craft timer to instantly pop out another 24k hp zombie.

While the fixing of zombies of their ability to wear weapons and armor is a step in the right direction, I still think that zombies need significant reworks to their health values. It’s not such a drastic issue at the moment with the katana dash combo (Light > Light > Light > Ctrl Dash Attack) being able to circumvent the Steel Thewed perk (it hits multiple times in the dash, which still guarantees a 1-shot in most situations to the player, and takes out anywhere from 1-1.3k hp from a zombie), BUT that is being addressed in the same fashion the lance multi-hit was addressed in 3.0 and the supposed shambling dead remain meat pillars that’ll stand the test of time.

Don’t get me wrong, I think that the perk system contributes heavily to the usage of zombies, and know full-well that the zombies themselves aren’t the issue; but when there’s no consequence to running around with more undead followers than you’re allowed with any other type of follower, with absolutely zero draw back from the perk system like there is with thralls and pets; what’s the point to even using thralls or pets?

I think zombies should get the same treatment as any other follower, where you get 1 to follow you, 2 with the war party perk, and maybe change up the 20-point corrupted Authority perk to allow you to add another zombie to your roaming warband; because Age of Sorcery isn’t the age of you becoming the hero as it was advertised; it’s the Age of Zombies and like so many other issues in the game, I’m really hoping we don’t need to wait 1-2 years before seeing this issue addressed.

Survive, Build, and Dominate.

  • Valaris Steps-on-Toes
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This thread makes some pretty solid arguments against zombies, but I think there is two crucial differentiators you downplayed.

I’m 100% on board with being fully corrupted while using them. It doesn’t make sense for someone pure to be escorted around by the dead. This change would kneecap players’ direct combat capabilities and make them switch to being more in the back than the front. As you said, with the right perks you can mitigate the half health, but there is nothing to fix half stamina. In my experience running corrupted builds, this makes them significantly harder to use in a direct offensive.

On to the two things I believe you didn’t fully account for; first up is armor. A thrall can be coated in a shell of 70%+ damage reduction whereas with chapter 2 zombies, they will have zero reduction of any kind. Three times as many healthbars doesn’t matter as much when they take three times as much damage. While armor penetrating weapons certainly are commonplace and can offset that ratio, zombies having no armor makes them susceptible to all forms of damage. There is no need to stack up sunders, or even use specific weapon types. Higher main number means faster they die, which creates opportunities for alternative counters when up against them.

The next point, also a big issue; weapons. You can trick out your living thralls with all kinds of weapons. High damage, ap, debuffs, poisons, bleed, you name it. Zombies punch. Just punch. So while yes, they’re hitting more rapidly as there is three times as many; they aren’t hitting as impactfully (pun intended).

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I appreciate the feedback, and while I completely agree with you on the damage front, the damage isn’t something I’m primarily concerned with, as much as being surrounded by enemies that even with a zero armor rating, still take anywhere from 20-30 hits to kill while you’re having to deal with the player controlling them.

Corruption and stamina – There’s a bevy of options from wearing the Godbreaker leggings for increased stamina regen, Gloves of Jhil for increased stamina regen, popping Herbal Teas for increased stamina regen, or resorting to the heavy Elixirs of Freedom for stamina regen, and the 10 grit perk for 25% increased stamina regen.

As for thralls with weapons, you’re absolutely right you can trick them out with whatever weapons you want, but the AI is easy to dodge for the most part, and poisons only last the same amount of hits as they would for a player. My argument is mostly that it’s significantly harder to dodge 3 wonky zombies than 1 wonky thrall.

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Zombies are squishy…at least they will be. AND temporary. I was using zombies until I could get enough thralls out for defending. It’s work to get your zombie crew together and to do it every other day or so…you are grinding to stay relevant in the Necro build. Plus they don’t do combos well…just swat at enemies. These are all negatives to balance the 3-4 undead paparazzi.

Are they temporary? It was advertised that way but it looks like if you’re on a server without building decay they never disappear. – A good note to be aware of if this is the case; maybe funcom could put a separate decay timer on them for admins to change?

Zombies have to much health, to easy to get and should not wear armor or have weapons. A clan of 10 can have 30 zombies all with well over 10k health. Good luck stopping that.

I can’t believe they didn’t fix the armor thing and just removed the latent armor value. Maybe it’s harder to fix than we think

I’m not certain they are tied to building decay. I play on a server without building decay and the Zombies last about 48-72 hours.

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Strange, ours doesnt have decay (everything else is vanilla, no mods etc) and ours don’t disappear.

I read in a different thread that zombies are permanent if decay is turned off. I don’t recall the thread though.

Edit: found the thread.

If you go Auth in pvp you will die no matter how many zombies you have, every decent player will demolish you.

Not necessarily. A good fighter can stay alive for a long time. Especially with a couple greater sabors following you. Pre patch that is

Yes, they decay! In a private server you can have a Thrall in no time as well with instathrall option, so if we are going to do the conversation we must speak only for official rules! And the balance of the op zombies is that first they decay, second they cannot equip gear, third you have to grind a lot to learn how to fix them and then again grind a lot to wait rng to make it a beast as you said! All this grind for something that decays so fast is a pretty good balance if you ask me!
Another mistake I keep on reading here is that people believe that they are weaker from their thralls… Give a break for God’s sake we were never stronger than now, never ever! No Thrall, zombie, pet can match a player now, none!
What’s really different now from all the other seasons is that you finally can do literally everything alone and sorcery is giving you both the cheap equipment and the expensive spells to do it even full corrupted! So grind for become a sorcerer, yes, but if you master sorcery grind no more! You even have a harvesting spell!
The game as it is right now is the best from all times and more balanced than ever!

Not sure why you got flagged but I was mostly being sarcastic. In most fights a full authority build will loose to a full strength build especially if both have zombies.

What the devs didn’t tell anyone is the zombies are actually beastmaster Teimos zombies. The health is just dumb and during a fight it is so hard to heal when getting slapped in the face by one. Now imagine a clan of 10 with 30!

Me neither probably someone cant handle the truth here :slight_smile:

But i agree they have to much hp, but i dont think that auth is the problem here like the op stated, especially running auth as sorcerer is a horrible idea

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The zombies are meant to be for fully corrupted Sorcerers. You know it’s almost impossible to be effective with half HP and stamina.

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