Why 'All the time I invested' arguments don't fit a Conan game

pve

#1

"Don’t talk like a fool," he grunted. "Come, girl, don’t be such a spitfire. I’m not like that Stygian you knifed, and you know it."

“A penniless vagabond,” she taunted.

He laughed at her.

“What do you call yourself? You haven’t enough money to buy a new seat for your breeches. Your disdain doesn’t deceive me. You know I’ve commanded bigger ships and more men than you ever did in your life. As for being penniless—what rover isn’t, most of the time? I’ve squandered enough gold in the sea-ports of the world to fill a galleon. You know that, too.

“Where are the fine ships and the bold lads you commanded, now?” she sneered.

At the bottom of the sea, mostly,” he replied cheerfully. “The Zingarans sank my last ship off the Shemite shore—that’s why I joined Zarallo’s Free Companions. But I saw I’d been stung when we marched to the Darfar border….”

  • Dialogue between Conan and Valeria in ‘Red Nails’, 1936, by Robert E. Howard

Conan routinely lost everything as a character. Many times, he never even recovered the treasures, or completed the objectives, he set out to when he was a thief, adventurer, pirate, and king. So as a fan of the source material the game is based on, and as a player that doesn’t over value their time put in a game to amass virtual items and assets, I’m rather surprised by how some feel a need to be compensated for their, uhm, ‘losses’ because of the time they chose to put in.

Its a video game. You were not cheated out of things you have ‘earned’, you lost things due to technical issues… in a video game. I can’t overstate how non an issue this is. Furthermore, it is a survival video game. Survival is an awful business, if you lack a willingness to deal with unexpected, and significantly bad setbacks. Build a shelter, watch is get taken down by wind and rain. Set a deadfall, find that the would be dinner has been taken away by a raptor of some sort. Survival is about persistence in face of lack, not accumulation of, security.

Some might propose the ‘its no fun to play a game where you keep losing everything’ point. And if by losing things, that means accomplishment milestones, and progression, that is somewhat understandable to me. However, what plot is their in Conan Exiles? There is a very loose story, much like other sandbox and survival games. I’ve lost progress, and I’ve also willfully restarted quite a few times, I never felt as if all my past play time was taken, or wasted. And at the end of all this, why are you investing so much time into a game, that isn’t meant to be some continually linear progression like a typical MMORPG to greater godlike levels and power, to begin with if the security of progression matters so much to you?

I do hope, and will appreciate, when Funcom has more of these issues and bugs worked out. They are not a huge game development studio, so I actually do feel they deserve much more patience with addressing technical issues in a modern multi platform game, with as ambitious a design, like this one has. I am just grateful that they have now made another game, that makes real effort, to fit one of the greatest intellectual properties with Robert E. Howard’s Conan stories.

Continually though taking to the forum and Twitter, to post negative rants, targeted at the people and company behind the game however is not appreciated. Sorry you are so unhappy with a video game not being perfect. Sorry that you might need to start over, or use other tools, to get back to a certain point in Conan Exiles. But what do you expect? No one promised a perfect, or fully moderated even, game to you. I feel Funcom has delivered on all the things I saw promised to be within the game, when I was taking my time researching it, before I bought it.

If you genuinely feel your time has been ‘stolen’ somehow, then maybe it has, by yourself for not better considering if the game, or its current state, was right for you and your expectations.


#2

Love the victim blaming that goes on with your post which could have been done in 3 sentences at most.

If you cannot see how people can view it as time theft/loss then not much to say.


#3

… If you really feel you are a victim here, you have a lot more to think about then if what I said could have been done in less words.

Theft? You are seriously proposing that your time, was ‘stolen’ by a video game?


#4

That whole post of yours was proselytizing, and pushing your dogma and it was written and structured in a way that shuts down any discussion.

Yes you could have got what you wanted out more clearly in about 3 sentences rather than dropping this written diarrhea that you plopped on the boards.


#5

Your trolling now.


#6

Right, well, first sharing a viewpoint is not proselytizing. That is an absurd claim to make here. So is the claim it is written and structured in a way that shuts down conversation. If there are legitimate counterpoints, one only need make them, and let the readers of this forum use their judgements as to their validity.

No, not at all. I am sorry that a shared viewpoint on a forum, over a topic you are so emotionally invested in, would lead you to conclude such. But not everyone who offers a viewpoint in opposition to the beliefs you have, is operating under some nefarious motive against you.


#7

Nah you were trolling for an argument the way it was structured. - its pretty obvious.

I have no emotional investment in this topic I just called you on it,


#8

Really? I mean, given how you feel by your other post, to have been a victim of theft of your time, you seem highly emotionally invested in the topic.

If it was so obvious, and such a blatant trolling attempt, then why did you reply. Or more so, why did you not reply with addressing the fallacies which a genuine troll post would have, pointed out.

No, no actually you didn’t. All I have read is one post framing yourself as being in some sort of victimhood, another as the injured party in some sort of theft, and others where you feel a differing viewpoint to yours must be some attempt to emotionally upset you. But not one solid step of reasoning for what, and why, anything in the OP was illogical or fallacious.


#9

Looking at it from the psychological point of view of an addict, you might be right. But for the average person no. In the late 80s and 90s it wasn’t uncommon to lose 10-20 hours of progress because a cat jumped on something and jolted your NES, or your battery went dead on your gameboy.

The way everyone I play CE with has the mentality of we have stuff. We will lose stuff. And we will just reget stuff. No big deal.

This is coming from someone who’s spent 1200 hours playing this game, most of that gathering and building. I’ve played on RP servers where I’ve spent many hours building and the owner says, oop… we may have to wipe to fix something.

Know what my reaction is? Not oh my buildings, or oh my wasted time.

Its wipe the server for the good of all. No hesitation, no regret. I’ve done this several times. I’ve done it after farming named armorers for hours (killing PH over and over to get them to spawn). Building villages, collecting thousands of mats.

Always willing to give it up for the greater good. Never balking at a game breaking bug. Never afraid to start over. In fact in many cases I welcome it. Gives me a fresh start when things get stagnate.

Like the OP said. This is Conan’s world. Things could be gone in a flash. New adventures await. People make some of the weirdest emotional attachments. And they need to just stop. Put the mouse or controller down and do something else if this is bothering them that much.

Because seriously, its a bit concerning when players are claiming to have time ‘stolen’ from them by a video game. This game isn’t like the old arcade games that literally sucked quarters from us.


#10

I agree that people can’t take losses these days. I for one have such a knack for survival games, that I own all obilisks, set up public map rooms, secured strategic locations, acquired all armorers within mere days etc etc etc, I haven’t even lost any gear, because I knew square foundations were the safest bet, since they are the first things tested… I acquired this acumen through years of failing on ARK. Losses are part of the process. God knows…

But I also agree that in a game where one can accumulate an incredible amount of wealth (a stack of 3 chests, filled with hardened steel) being lost to a bug (just because stack of chest was sitting on a wedge foundation) does not inspire a lot of confidence in said game.

When one loses one’s entire base to a whale (Raft being eaten by a Leedsychtis) then that’s fine…cuz it was intended by game mechanics.

But to have someone lose something to a technical problem like a chest sitting on a wedge foundation? Well… That’s not really Conan is it?

Like, I think your right. But I also understand why people can’t accept a cheesy loss, especially if the game rewards agglomeration of wealth and power.


#11

No, that is not. And I can empathize with, and understand it. I can also see it being a very good reason to leave a game, and lose confidence with the game maker, never buying another product of theirs. That’s the consequences for both a buyer and seller when their is customer dissatisfaction with a product, one is out the cost of the product and the other loses a customer and chance of future revenue from them, and everyone who values their opinion of the seller.

That said, I cannot see it being a valid reason to be on the game’s forum, and social media, hounding for reparations of some sort for lost time, or demands for a reply to technical issues and state of the game. It is very discouraging to look at an official Twitter account post of Conan Exiles, meant to share and recognize someone’s art inspired by the game, and see replies demanding bug fixes and the like, or calling developers thieves because they spent money on a game that is not perfect.

I also think that if you are playing on officials, knowing the Funcom stance on moderating officials, and then rant on forums or social media about what happens with demands, that is a failure of personal responsibility to a degree. If you want a secured game, or guarantee of mechanism to be able to recoup losses due to a technical problem, local co-op or dedicated server with a cooperative administrator are the available options. Expecting Funcom to start up a support team needed for server moderation to address lost items, cheating players, etc, etc, is just an unrealistic expectation.


#12

This post amazed me. Lol.

The whole case is very simple. If you, as a player, amuse yourself, find it interesting or “challenging” (positively) to note that all your “effort” and “time” invested in your character’s journey can be lost on a magic pass (and no, I’m not talking about sorcerers, but a more treacherous “magic” yet; possibly Conan would even have more reasons to hate it) and see no reason to feel frustration, disappointment and irritation, I believe that the game in its current state is perfect for you. In fact, maybe the ideal would be to ask Funcom kindly to stop trying to fix the insecurity problems in “saving” or simply “keeping” your character’s progress properly. Actually, I think Funcom is already doing an excellent job in that regard. (…) But frankly… nobody needs Funcom to enjoy the game it this way: you can restart your game yourself as many times as you want. Maybe in the near future Funcom can create a “cycling” game mode where the player will have all their work “deleted” for a revitalizing restart at the end of a given time limit. At least that will be more honest.

However, I believe the Conan Exiles proposal did not include a plan to create a “technical survival game” (a very unpopular genre). I mean… no doubt the game acquires more adrenaline to imagine that the broken system can “sabotage” your evolution without warning. Lol. If a game that proposes to save the progress of your gameplay is not offering this functionality under different circumstances - without any reasonable context or justification, except for the own flaws and limitations of the game itself - something quite wrong is happening here. I’m talking about simple logic and coherence. And I find it a natural consequence to note that most people who are facing these problems are not exactly “satisfied”… just to say the least.

In the end, no one is asking for a perfect game, but a functional game with satisfactory performance. In fact, even a bad or boring game should “work” in an “expected” way. And if Funcom were really doing their part, I think the forum would not be so “moving” in a negative context.

Anyway, it’s interesting to notice in various responses from Funcom employees the classic answer that they “understand our frustration” or something like that when something bizarre or wrong happens and this undermines the player’s experience in some creative way. It’s very kind of them. Or maybe they are being patronizing us to “gain” time and some tolerance.


#13


#14

Holy crap how delusional lol. Pretending that people who had their SNES’s unplugged by pets didn’t immediately jump up, grab their heads and say OH GOD, ALL THAT TIME WASTED!

Yeah no every single child from the 80’s up till now, but not including any conan exiles players, were born natural stoics with such resilience to suffering that even if they spend 3 decades building a d omino structure that got knocked down by a cat they would only remark that it happened and begin to rebuild it without even blinking. My ■■■■, dude. Get over yourself.

If you spend a long time doing something and it gets arbitrarily deleted, it’s completely normal and justified to believe your time was wasted or taken from you. Losing everything like in the situation you described in the OP implies losing it in combat, or through PVP, which most people are okay with. Getting wiped and starting over isn’t the same has having your stuff funcommed into another plane of existence.

I didn’t even lose anything with the patch im just saying you’d have to be either dense or have some kind of condition if you can’t empathize with people’s frustration. If it really doesn’t make any sense to you that people got bothered by having their bases disappear for no reason, bases that took weeks to construct in some cases, you’re goofy my lad seek help and wear bright reflective colors in real life so people can avoid you.


#15

“Oh noes, my non existent place, made of non existent things, that I spent hours of leisure time I chose to put into a non productive leisure pursuit is gone, oh woe is me.”

No, sorry, won’t coddle or empathize with that beyond, ‘Yeah, that must be a mild frustration. Want help to see if we can get that back?’ If you think I am goofy, because I can’t see getting worked up over time spent in a video game, to acquire non existent things, being nothing to get emotionally worked up about to the point of demanding ‘compensation’ for ‘time lost’, and demand for ‘refunds’ of lost virtual ‘property’, then I think we so fundamentally have diverging values there would be no point debating it.

Also to note, I did offer that I empathize with the frustration to a degree in the OP as well. But wholly rejected the taking to forums and social media to lash out at Funcom, and more so the people behind the game.


#16

I agree to that wholeheartedly.
Been feeling sorry for Funcom tbh… they actually knew the Megapatch wasn’t ready and were worried about releasing it, but did at the behest of the elite, who can handle loss a lot better than boredom. Funcom did the best they could by patching up the most grievous of issues with hotfixes before limping off to vacation, completely burned out from being expected to work 14 hours a day for the last 3 months.

Now Funcom’s on an industrial vacation (it’s a Norwegian thing) the wound is festering untreated.

Best Dethos and I can do, are be anti-biotics to the toxicity swarming across this forum.

Dethos is just … what i’d call a Troll in Shining Armor. Someone who can’t take no for an answer, but his got his heart in the right place. Sees things for what it is.

Funcom also knows, people are frustrated. Dumping their bile onto the forum is a bit like writing one’s worries into a diary, so they can continue with their business without brooding about it.

FC simply continues to repair the game, and expand on it, with or without our “feedback”.
All I see on the forums is “FC sux” “FC needs to learn how to make games” Blabla Bla bLa bLAH

The very same people writing this negativity will see the very same negativity being written by younger people 20 years later in games that make today’s games feel like Tetris.

What has happened before will happen again. How we chose to conduct ourselves during these iterations is what makes us who we are.


#17

51LFZ5yhrFL

I have become Shrek, destroyer of forum feelz.


#18

Had 3 wipes Pre-Release on the RP Server (I helped mod and co-admin). We simply shrugged our shoulders and re-built.

I played PvP and when the server griefers showed up they found open doors to take whaever they wanted. If the PvPers RP’d the event I would fight back and we had ourselves a solid fight. If not…I simply tactically retreated and simply could not be killed…ruining their ‘Fun’. After they were done raping my Smallish House. I rebuilt. After getting raped a few times I started pestering the clans that were griefing. Other Exilers combined and we laid into them. They never returned. Good riddens. You could tell they were a ‘Younger’ crowd of friends from chat. Again…good riddens. That was when the lightbulb came on for this game and its PvP. Lack of mechanics and plenty of young/immature players wanting dong and boobs in their game. Not all of course…but a lot.

CE has great potential for RP/ERP Server Communities. Funcom simply needs to make all the base mechanics 100% bug free…like the wedge bug…and many farming grower/converter issues. And other building parts. Just fix them…we can handle the rest with mods or do it ourselves.

As for PvP in this game…not much honour code these days with this bunch. Some players are outstanding but the griefers simply are really tedious to deal with because of the game mechanics. Which brings us right back to Time Invested Complaints.

I call BS on people wanting to be ‘Compensated For Their Time’. Utter nonsense. We do have a beef with Funcom not fixing core mechanics though. And Funcom gave us their own forum to complain about it.


#19

My opinion ==> Decades passing people played games for entertainment, to escape the complexities of the real word and dive into a fantasy. When games became a way of socializing with strangers, how they were viewed and why they were played started to change.

While there are still people that play games for entertainment, many new players are playing in a different way for different reasons. Unfortunately, too many are entering the online gaming experience by projecting too much of themselves into the game. They use mechanics of the game as a way to inflate their slightly flattened ego. They feel a need to rule the game, perhaps because they do not feel in control of their own lives. When something goes wrong, their ego takes a hit and the player goes into a rage.

There is an ongoing study regarding the developing of mental attachments to virtual items. There is already a name for the emotional disturbance but I won’t go there here. I will say that when a certain kind of player feels helpless or vulnerable in real life, they tend to project themselves into the game by building their character into something they desire to be. They create a world for themselves where they are greater than what they feel in life. When an error or mechanic flaw takes away from that world, it breaks them. Their fantasy of greatness was exposed as unreal and this type of player is forced to realize that it is just a game.

Scenario: You imagine a certain sexy soul is flirting with you. You know they probably are not doing this, but imagining it brings comfort and confidence. You are happy with this fantasy and use it to entertain yourself when you feel…(something you don’t like to feel.) Now, you happen to notice that this certain sexy soul is kissing someone other. Your fantasy is broken. You feel hurt and your confidence fails. You are upset at the person being kissed because they broke your fantasy.

The game is the sexy soul
The kiss is the bug, glitch, mechanical error
The someone other is Funcom
The you is the player that feels wronged because their good feelings were taken away.

This is rather simplified; however, the study mentioned suggests that there is a very complex balance between how we see ourselves and reality. When that balance is upset, we tend to behave badly.


#20

As a father, I have already had to contend with issues related to attachment to virtual objects with my kids and games. The anxiety felt as a result of losing progress or virtual items is real if somewhat distorted. In my parenting, I have had to be very clear with my kids that virtual objects are not real and their loss is not real loss. Game progress and virtual objects do not supersede real world priorities like family, school, and work. If they have problems making that distinction, I take away their games. Thankfully, they understand the point well and have learned to walk away from their games even if it means losing hours of “progress.”