Why ? Why ? Are thralls so op in pvp

Haven’t played in awhile. Jumped back in and holy hell are the thralls beyond over powered . Really really over powered . Was taking 3 of us an average of 20 min to kill the leveled up thralls and and that’s with cheesing them . But yet they 2 shot you Everytime . This just absolutely kills pvp takes all the fun away . Hey let’s go out and fight . Wait do you mean run from the thralls to kill player they climb on rock and shoot few hundred arrows at thrall . Ridiculous . At least Nerf the pvp thrall damage a bunch .

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I don’t really have an objection to PVP Settings directly being adjusted for Thrall Damage. But I will bring up this, I do feel leveled Thralls should take you more time to kill. I don’t feel a measly 20 minutes even comes close to making up for the hours it can take to level certain Thralls.

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There are different ways of using thralls in pvp. If they are defending a base and are high value high leveled thralls it is only fair it takes you a while to kill them. It takes a certain amount of time to level them and it takes a certain amount to build up your base so taking 20 extra mins to get rid of thralls around it seems just fine. Pvp fights are another topic but the way you explained it it didn’t seem to me like it was about pvp fights. Because no one has 20 mins to fight thralls while fighting players too.

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Remember we went from unlimited thralls at our disposal to a cap at 55. We were soothed with “the new thralls will be better/stronger than the legacy thralls”. And now seems on top of the thrall cap at 55 people want them to be subpar as well? Hmmm…

They’re not just OP in PVP. They’re OP in every aspect of the game.

It’s mind boggling to me that the most powerful beings in this game world by a HUGE margin are not the players, not the ancient evil entities, not the dragons, the demons, the elementals, nor the giants…but our human thralls.

Decent (not even good, or great, just decent) thralls can solo anything in the game with absolutely zero input from the player (other than moving away so as not to get caught up in the fight…we are just spectators, after all!). I find it hard to believe this was the designers’ intent.

Some will argue that having weak thralls will destroy their single-player experience. I also find it hard to believe that folks can not see a more nuanced solution somewhere in between where thralls are not terribly overpowered gods subservient to their semi-mortal (not quite mortal…we apparently have to take great pains to be able to really die!) overlords who watch with a morbid combination of delight and ennui as they roflstomp players, gods, dragons, and beasts for our profit and amusement, and thralls that will help a competent player defeat these same beings while requiring some actually useful interaction and the application of a few neurons.

Some will argue “well if you don’t like using OP thralls, then use something else”. That’s nonsense. I’m not talking about my personal satisfaction, but what is clearly and obviously a blatant failure in game design. There is no way I will believe that Funcom intended thralls to be as absurdly powerful as they are. Can I use a Darfari I to go fight things successfully? Of course I can! But that’s not the point at all.

So, yes, agree with you 200%. Thralls are absurdly poorly designed.

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Maybe there should be a way to make thralls who are on follow, not aggro players. That way they’re still bad ■■■ at base defense, still awesome at pve, but they don’t ruin pvp. Thoughts?

PvP means “Player vs Player” not “player vs NPC which is following a player around and can one shot most builds.”

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What I hear you saying is that when offline raiding, you should have to overcome more significant obstacles.

I agree.

But I do not think the current incarnation of 15k health thralls with 80% + damage reduction and ability to kill players in 2 hits (at most!) is the best way. Other tools could/should be designed that don’t result in absolute gods walking amongst us.

@therryy

When outside of PVP raid hours on Official, will a Thrall on Follow attack another Player?

They won’t. But during raid hours, a thrall on follow will obliterate another player.

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Alright now that we agree on that point.


My Suggestion to fixing the issue of PVP vs PVE Thrall balance.
We need to buff the Player, not nerf the Thrall into the ground.

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Outside raid, thralls on follow are PvE via the standard rules: you need to attack an enemy or be injured. They are oblivious to the other player in either state.

Inside raid, thralls on follow will not attack other players unless attack or injury occurs. If you’re peaceful, you can just stand around and have a meeting with your bodyguards just chilling nearby.

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I agree. Though I think making thralls not aggro other players while on follow will probably be the easiest fix till something else can be done.

My thoughts exactly. I’ve been trying to create a pve arena on my server, and even there, this is an absolute struggle.

  • if the bosses deal enough damage to kill your beloved berserker, the player also dies in 2 hits and will barely participate

  • players can bring healing arrows to the fight (i managed to remove them before allowing players to start the fight, but they can put it inside thralls and make the battle ridiculously easy)

  • if i make it designed for solo players, they might still bring thralls along, and even if they don’t, most bosses have very narrow time windows to attack, moves are not telegraphed, strike too fast, and so on.

Its really disappointing if you are not focused on PVP.

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I love this game but it does not really cater to a player power fantasy as opposed to say other games where you become or play something inherently powerful. ESO, Warframe, Wow etc.

The power fantasy doesn’t exist when it comes to player characters. But enslaving or capturing minions to fulfill said fantasy.

Kind of a crying shame to be honest. Leveling something I know if going to be better than I in almost every aspect of the game.

The issue cam stem from many things. Basically those things can be that bosses are predictable. So they became damage sponges with insane HP. They can be solo killed but the time consumption outweighs the reward. The answer was thralls to help us kill the damage sponges as largely people rarely form groups to kill something.

I’m a leader of heroes. Not really one myself. Or I am a bearer (full Encumbrance mode) for a thrall that out classes me. But I am definitely the bearer. I have even been a bearer for a bearer thrall.

But right now, unless enemies are tuned or player characters were tuned to take more damage. We need this system.

The aspect was that PVP should be a quick. And realistic. Getting hit 15 times by a spear doesn’t feel gritty or realistic in this type of game.

This went wayside when it became heavily focused tower defense as opposed to PVP in a more traditional sense.

Thralls are OP. But a lesser evil I guess.

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I like that idea.
Or maybe they have current stats when on their own land claim, bu tout and about 75% of the health, and 25% the damage given. basically make them great at defending your base, but a true follower if you take them out into the world. Just a thought.

Who said anything about nerfing thralls in to the ground? Why is it so binary? Why is the discussion continually seen as either “thralls should be as powerful as they are now” or “thralls need to be nerfed into the ground”?

Overall I like your suggestions, but think it takes more than a damage output modification.

If nothing else, their health pool needs to be adjusted. Thralls have an immense effective health pool (ballpark 50k health with 0 armor pen) that does not seem appropriate when this outshines the health of every big mean boss in the game, and is roughly 20 times that of the player…another human being standing right next to them.

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Thank you.

What… You’re trying to compare extreme cases to the average. 50k health is not the average I assure you. I understand the point you’re trying to make but it’s exaggerated.

When you call for a Thrall nerf below the Players current damage output, you most definitely are asking for them to roll out the caskets.

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50k is not exaggeration.

10k health thrall (very easy to achieve) with 80% damage reduction. Do the math.

So you are saying that you think if a thrall did comparable damage to a player, that it would be “caskets” for thralls?

Seriously? Do you REALLY think that?! That’s mind-boggling to me. Thralls currently do roughly TWENTY TIMES the damage of a player. And reducing there damage output to be the same or slightly lower is viewed at as “caskets” for thralls?!

I want some of what you’re smoking!

You also seem to have, once again, ignored my first paragraph and have gone completely binary: is there no room for nuance in your paradigm of how things work in this game?

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I’d say 9kHP is about average. I thought 27kHP was max, so i wonder how to achieve 50kHP!

Anyway… I suggest trying to solo The Black Keep and see how far you get. My newbie thralls didn’t survive. It’s still pvp if you want the gear.

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10k health, with 80% damage reduction, means they only take 20% of the damage done to them, which gives them effective health of 50k. Math. And of course, you left out the qualifier “ballpark” I’d put in.

Your 9k thrall with 80% damage reduction have effective health pool of 45,000. Very much in the ballpark of 50k, right?

Here’s how to solo the Black Keep:

It’s not that hard, AND IT’S NOT THE POINT.

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