Why ? Why ? Are thralls so op in pvp

Conan Exiles General Discussion
26

I guess that is why they had to put in the Thrall limit as the bigger clans had to have 1000s of thralls on their walls to feel safe to log out, kind of like Minecraft only the triangles are thralls on the walls or pets every 5 feet on the ground. If Thralls so so over powered why do the big clans need hundreds of them. I mean really 10 over powered amazing thralls should be enough to protect any base right? No not really as thralls are mind less and have many issues but tell me would if you are only allowed 55 thralls to protect all your bases do you want to weak little kittens or badass killers to protect your base.

Now I do no longer play PVP so maybe you all think that it is better to have hundreds of kitten then a few amazing killers but whatever you choose great for you but stop trying to make fun of people who do not want the same play style as yours. I am pretty sure with the AI over haul that Funcom is working on it will be more balanced as it rolls out but until then geeze can we stop calling for nerfs, its never ends in any players favor.

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27

And speaking with you is like speaking to a wall.

You do not listen, you only hear what you have already decided is being said.

Sorry about the mix-up with Solo vs No-Thralls. I thought it made the point, since, as @Dzonatas said, the topic was THRALLS. I can and have solo’d the black keep. If you want I’ll take a video this weekend, will be a good test of new laptop :slight_smile:

I can only do math with facts and numbers. Things like “most”, “some”, “many”, etc are not facts but estimates rife with confirmation bias, opinions, and anecdote.

Nobody has yet answered why anyone thinks Thralls with 50k effective health (for those that don’t understand this, it doesn’t mean the thrall has 50k health, it means he has enough armor to absorb enough damage that his/her effective health pool is 50k.) should be cleaving thru the hardest things in the game like they’re not there. I’ve seen videos of high-end thralls going thru unnamed city bosses in under a minute. There is no way this is the intent. There is no way this is good for the game.

Bottom line, right now, thralls (even just mediocre ones!) are BY FAR the most powerful entities in the game.

Does anyone believe that makes sense, or is intended???

…edit added later… Also wanted to say that statements like " for the most part talk about nerfing the Thralls they want the Damage Output below the current Player Damage Output" then you’re mind-reading. You can’t read minds. This is Loserthink (it’s a book, worth a read). It is invalid argument with no meaning.

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I understand you sentiment, but ‘‘just play your own way’’ is not what a game should enforce.

What if devs come tomorrow and say that undermeshing is a good way for casual players to not lose their base while living their busy lives? Just find your own way to build a base, if that’s too easy for you.

Its literally the same crappy excuse, we are not talking about personal prefferences here, rather possible flaws in the core loop of the game.

You even mentioned that the video in fact did not show how to solo dungeons, and even coop, it was hard at times. Doesn’t that proves further that the game is not designed for thralless gameplay?

And i ask you to consider that this kind of content (witch queen, black keep, warmaker) is supposed to be the endgame. You get their items, you craft the key and escape. Why woudn’t you be with the best possible gear? And even with the best stuff, they (we) still struggle.

Yet you tell those who think that this meta is broken to ‘‘play their own way’’, when its barely doable.

I just don’t get it. Just say that you like doing nothing while your thall completes the dungeon for you or even worse, you like suffering thorugh content solo/underlevelled when you should not.

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29

There’s no reason to not have the best gear.

The drop rate is about 1 in 3 according to in-game files. Where is your data from? Please provide reference for your .00000001 % figure

I don’t see how amount of time in the game is relevant. Knowledge and preparation are far more important. If you’re taking a dancer to help you in a dungeon, then you’re missing one or both of those, no offense intended.

Almost everything in this game is easy. You prepare, you gain knowledge, you do what you need to do. There are no bosses that can’t be beat solo, very few have any kind of requirement to do much of anything other than stab stab stab block dodge run in a circle and heal wash rinse repeat (or some variation thereof).

Thralls have ~10k health. Their armor (if you have prepared!) absorb 80% of the damage they take. Therefore their effective (which is what I wrote, since you didn’t read it the first time) is therefore ~50k.

Because it is terrible game design. I run almost always solo (nobody else speaks the Darfari langauge well enough to keep up with me!). It causes what I think of as inflation…if other people are using the super thralls, and you’re not, then they’re going to get those end game items that you claim are so hard to get with ease while you’re still trying to figure out why your dancer doesn’t fight well enough to tackle end-game bosses.

Again, broken record here, there is no valid reason for the most powerful entities in existence to be the thralls we have in-game. None. It is nonsensical.

For what it’s worth, and this goes to @Zeb and @Dzonatas too, this game was perfectly playable before thralls came along. Nobody used them before you could equip them. Then they became valuable partners to have (which was how I think they were intended, and how I think they should return to being) , then they kept experiencing power creep to be more and more powerful until the situation we have now.

I killed and functioned in the game SOLO for years before thralls became what they are now. I was able to do the bosses in the game at the time (which are still pretty much the same as they were then). I was able to PVP (well, I participated some, never good at it really) functionally without thralls. I was able to build bases and farm for dragonpowder and do all the same things we all do right now WITHOUT THRALLS AT ALL.

And you know what? I wasn’t alone. The game population was just fine then. People functioned just fine, and can function just fine again with Thralls that are of comparable power to players.

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30

Yeah man!
Funcom ignore this Topic. Many players wanna play Island of beautitul house .
In PvP you can be the best player , but You enemie be a Noob with Berserk trhall kill YouTube in one Second. Ridículous no have Sense trhall hit one player And kill like a insect.

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33

And you still seem to think reducing the power of thralls somehow breaks someone’s play style.

You still have not addressed the issue of thralls being by far the most powerful things in this game.

How can you possibly know what “most” people are thinking or want? Absurd. Mind-reading! Loserthink!

You do not listen, attested to by your not answering questions and lots of assuming you know what I think…you clearly do not.

I am not assuming most people have the same playstyle or experience I do. But I do know that people have the same ability (many people MORE!) to play the game as I do. If I can figure out how to go get a Cimmerian Berserker, then you DEFINITELY can. Unless you’re too distracted with gif-finding. Loserthink again…don’t think you know what I’m thinking, work with the words that are said.

It is a broad explanation. So what? It’s a broad topic.

Again, you’re assuming you can read my mind and are speaking for me. Again. Not listening. Not reading. Not acknowledging. You only answer the points that maximize your ability to fit in a snarky gif and snappy insult.

NOBODY benefits by having a broken game with broken thralls that ARE THE MOST POWERFUL THINGS IN THE UNIVERSE (the game universe, anyway). No play style NEEDS that. As I’ve said, folks got along in the game just fine before uber-thralls, they are not NEEDED.

I do not agree with your assertion that this can be fixed by making MORE things (ie players) just as, if not more, powerful. That’s inflationary (power-creep, we call it) and results in just more stupid broken things and nothing in the game has any value because it’s all even easier to get than it is now.

Now stop being a criticaster and address some of the points instead of just ad hominem argument, mind-reading, and loserthink.

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36

How does buffing the players (to above the current power of thralls?!) fix the underlying issue of power disparity between the “big scary things” and the players & their tools? This just makes the player + their tool (the thralls) even MORE obscenely powerful against adversaries that are already stupendously underwhelming!

I don’t think we have different goals or views. I don’t think that because I really don’t know what yours are. I think it’s pretty safe to say you don’t really know what mine are either, you just seem to think you do.

My assumption (and I HATE assuming) based on what I’ve read from you is that you want super easy mode where you have to do no work or require any input and just sit back and “win”.

I’d call you a classic millennial, but then you’d say “ok, boomer”, so I’ll skip it :wink:

…edit… And you STILL haven’t really addressed why you think it’s good that thralls are the most powerful things in the universe. All I see you saying is that somehow making players more powerful fixes that???

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37

Wow you really haven’t read what Zeb has been posting about her supporting different types of play. Big fan of Scott Adams, btw. Dilbert is hilarious. :slight_smile:

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38

Well, I have read. What I get out of it is that he thinks super-powerful thralls that are the most powerful things in the game are somehow ok, and are NEEDED for some playstyle. The only playstyle that seems to support is what I said, sit back and do nothing while thralls roflstomp everything.

I don’t think that’s the playstyle that FC envisioned. Do you? Does anyone?

40

First focus on how to get those thralls. I know of only two places, so far. The alpha clans camp those sites for easy dragging/conversion. With the upcoming thrall limit, there should be less need to camp those sites. Of course, if they die often then they’ll want the camp to regain followers. The limit makes us choose between the camp site or max out thralls at home base. No more sprawl.

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Forgive. I don’t assume based on avatar, but do assume based on genre. <3

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You have a valid point, as I don’t play on high-pop servers this is rarely an issue. Berserkers (what is the correct plural?) are often camped, but RHTS and Volcano guys are much easier to find on the server-sizes I play on. RHTS in particular are VERY easy as they are always there, multiple camps, and while they’re not as super awesome as CB or Volc guys, they’re still pretty badass

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43

Hey Malagant,

I tried arguing about this topic before. 90% of the people here are Solo/PvE players or players that play on empty PvP servers. It’s a very hot topic since the biggest part of the Conan community is basically Solo/PvE/RP. They do not play the game on “high skill level”. (just look at the lack of understanding what eHP is)

The biggest problem was and still is that the thrall AI is bugged. Period. Funcom on the other hand, instead of fixing the actual problem, they tried to find a quick and dirty solution to this problem. Yes, they buffed thralls in numbers. Over the year 2018 they increased HP and damage numbers of thralls (just look at the “Bearer META”).

Funcom is now trying to fix the actual problem. The limit of followers was just one step (to reduce server load, because more AI means a slower main loop and therefore low SFPS). Slow SFPS means less business logic executed and AI not reacting at all.

Also Funcom fails to do the “what could be if XYZ” test. I am just pointing to the archers one shotting players with 1k armor rating. Funcom does not watch how their game is played on PvP, especially high level PvP (where every player plays at maximum efficiency and best META, best weapons etc.) and they do not test their game balance based on that.

Towards the actual topic: Yes thralls are OP and broken now. And if Funcom manages to fix the AI, the server lag and improves it, it will be even worse (on PvP). So with fixing the AI they also need to rebalance thrall stats towards the player stats.

@Zeb
Regarding buffing the player: it’s a costly task. Funcom will need to rebalance the whole fighting and PvP aspects of the game. Bosses will become easy if not rebalanced again. And here we are back to the original problem: NPC AI is not good.

If you want to see good AI and good bosses with good combat mechanics, just look at Horizon Zero Dawn. Here is an example video:

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45

They did mention that the new leveling system for thralls was just step one. A base of sorts. They did not address the AI before, because the base was not the one we have now, thus it would have been throwing hours and money away at something that was going to fundamentally change. We will more than likely see a few changes over the next few patches addressing thralls and the AI.

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Yes, that was sadly the way Funcom handled things that were overpowered under certain conditions. They nerfed it into the ground all the time. Even if there was just a slight adjustment in values needed some times. They also didn’t bother doing a rework as a mean to rebalance.

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They’ve addressed the AI twice that I can remember. As I recall, the last big change was contracted out to a 3rd party and has been janky since. :frowning:

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If boss fights were like that there would be plenty of people saying it’s too much for their sims games :stuck_out_tongue:

i totally agree with you, it all comes to AI, no matter how much they buff the player or the thralls, if the AI doesn’t change, not only for thralls but for all NPCs, it will be the same.

To be honest, i feel the whole game is broken by now, i like the new changes and the new mechanics but they were not implemented in a game ready for them, everything need to change in order to adjust to those new systems and mechanics and one of those things, maybe the most important, is the AI, it still behaves as we were in EA when there were no combos and no perks.

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50

As a pvper, i agree with everything you said.
npc AI is lame since the beggining of beta.
For example…
If we had command keys for npcs, they would be part of the skillplay.
Imagine if you had to command your npc while you are engaging in combat, healing yourself, running, attacking, cancelling animation or … it could be interesting. instead of having a full uncontrolled, non responsive npc.

51

Yes this would definitely add up to a skill of a player. Decision making is very important.

Like use your thrall to stagger an enemy at an important moment. Could be winning you the fight.

52

lol I take said dancer as I like the toughness it provides, the challenge , see I do not run with a 20k Hp thralls, I do not think I need to have all my fighter thralls dressed in end game armor sporting the sword of crom or archers all with the Red Mother. I do not have 20 spinas at my base all dressed in god breaker or in a box waiting, in fact I visit the volcano for crafters but I do not take him home anymore as that breaks the game in my eyes. Being able to run in to the volcano, run to a certain spot and get one of the most powerful thralls in the game seems unlikely to be where you would find him or how easy it is to find him.

I play to make my game harder but when I want to take a good thrall it would be nice if he was a bad ass and actually worked and did his job but I so wish it was harder to get the named thralls,
that they do not just spawn in one spot every single time I walk by that spot a new one is standing there, it takes the fun out of getting the prize in my eyes.

I was being sarcastic as the percent is pitiful on many of them.

Oh I did read it just do not agree.

Lol you are a rude one eh. Do you think that you talk down to me or try to make me feel as I do not play my game correctly or up to the wisdom of others that it will make me agree with your points, not gonna happen but I do see that you have your ideas and mine are much different so I will call this done and let you keep on with your visions and I will play my game to suit me.

You have a great day and please do not feel the need to reply back to me, I am good.

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