Personally I’m not a fan of buff/potion management while you’re fighting. Fighting should be about how you manage stamina, and how you can attack, defend, and maneuver around your opponent. Whether or not you’re currently digesting food shouldn’t come into it. Buffs are more of an MMO concept, which doesn’t fit smoothly with the gameplay here.
Potions lengthen fights that would already otherwise be resolved. When a player takes too many hits and is injured to the breaking point, they usually choose to flee and heal. Instead of losing, they’ll use a potion instead, and shunt the cost into being a material cost (the food/potion) rather than death. They’ll dance around for half a minute, and then re-engage the enemy. That’s not only ridiculous, but it’s also not fun for the person they’re against. Just let the defeated player die, respawn, and fight again, rather than draw the fight out by running around and healing.
Mid-fight potions give veteran players too much of an advantage against newcomers. Veteran players will just use a potion as soon as they get into battle, to limit the damage taken from any potential strikes. This is yet another advantage that long-time players will have against newbies. New players have a hard enough time crafting steel, let alone crafting the complex (and frankly sprawling) amount of foods in the game.
An animation would be the best compromise to resolve mid-fight healing. This would allow players to heal up after a fight, or between fights, while preventing mid-fight healing. So long as the healing speed is quite a bit slower than how quickly players can damage you, then an animation will prevent mid-fight healing. If you need to heal, you can still run off, hide, and munch down some food. This would please both the RP and PVP communities.
I would be in for no food or drinking water during combat.
But to gulp some potion/tea down… I think that would not take longer than a dagger attack. (One would get a potion from hips to lips and after flipping the closure away drink said potion/tea.) But if the other one is able to use a staggering/stunning capcloser while you are trying to use that healing, I think it would be fine for that healing item to be lost plus no healing taking place.
But then again, range is a problem…
As for all the different food: I would love a statement about what the certain food does in its description.
Like how sating a meal is. How less thristy one is after a drink. How much that food heals. If that meal has a bonus effect and what that would be. Like those brews which are told to warm one up or cool down. How good those work would be nice to know as well. (Warming up for 3 min or 10 or whatever.)
Indeed, Eating food shouldn’t be allowed during combat, or should have a 8 sec animation. This would prevent players eating during combat. Only potions and wraps should be used during combat, having a 4 sec animation with the hp regeneration happening only at the end of the animation, and 1 min cooldown.
I feel like the animation should go on for a longer amount of time if it’s a bigger meal, and all foods should heal at roughly the same rate. That way if a high-vitality player wants to chow down on a Feast of Ymir between purge waves, they’ll have to take the time to eat the whole thing to gain its benefits.
But if a player wants to snack on some bugs, then it’s just a quick ‘pop’ and it’s eaten.
Are you speaking of bandages? I cant use them infight… (testlive) But they heal really quick! Perfect for outfight healing.
Also I think 4 second for “drinking” a potion is a bit too long. I would have gone with a second, as probably most people are able to react in half to complete seconds. (Any kick should cancel the healing animation.) This will probably be even faster if done by some pvp guy, who is accustomed to reacting really, really fast. If you put up 4 seconds, healing potions would loose their whole point, as using them wont be viable anymore - not even in pve. (And no, exploiting bad AI doesnt count!)
That said, I would agree on 2 second animation as the middle path as well.
But then I dont see a reason for cooldown as that could render healing useless as well. (Surely would with a 1 min cooldown. Maybe thats how often people tend to get into fights in pvp?)
You know… there are bosses and monsters which deal one huge ton of damage. Then we got those people who eighter play singleplayer or are solo on some pve server. Plus different “skill” as well.
If you had been going for potions and similar healing like 20% of lost HP, I would have been okay with that as well. But rendering them to be only used outfight? I dislike that thought.
If you really think that right now pvp is rather heal vs heal instead of proper player vs player, then why do you want to ruin the game for any solo or even bad player out there? (Who have to rely on healing…) Instead of rendering heal consumables useless or rather inviable due to animation and cooldown, why not lower the healing done down to a point it gets easily outdamaged. Or even better! Get creative! Think about else ways like mixing an anti healing poison. Or whatever you might come up with…
4 seconds for drinking a potion would prevent spam healing as it already happens on testlive. As stamina, you manage when to use it, if you drink a potion or use a bandage in front of the attacker you will be punished.
So, you gotta play smart for healing, running, hide and drink then come back to battle.
I can understand cooldowns not being needed if there is an animation that long.
No. 4 second long animation will cause healing to only be used outfight, as probably no one can manage to have a 4 second long window with no damage coming in at all… (Assuming that taking any damage or sprinting or climbing would cancel the healing animation.)
As for managing stamina… Whoever wastes all his stamina is as good as dead in pvp, as he serves himself to his enemy. That takes like 4 or 5 seconds as well.
Yet again: once any weapon or tool is being equipped, I can not use bandages. Also I lose the healing effect of bandaging on any damage that I get dealt. (Even on climbing, for whatever reason.) If receiving damage wont abort that healing, its probably a bug. (or live version, which disqualifies itself from that healing discussion anyway)
Also you are forgetting about pve… yet again.
And no, exploiting bad AI isnt an option for me there.
There are enough monsters and creatures which still hurt even with lvl 60 and black keep armor. Eating away 50 HP or rather more with each hit. Not everyone likes to roll around all the time (or is able to).
And no. Limiting players to one or two playstyles (like exploiting with bow or using full defense, meaning wielding a shield) is no option as well.
Pvp seems to be the only thing in your mind, and you seem to be pretty much limited in your ideas on how to fix this healing issue in pvp. Even worse, you wont even react to a anti-healing-poison-idea. Instead, you want to render healing almost inviable during combat. Even changing the healing from flat 20% or even maybe 50/100 HP healing to 20% of lost HP would have been an option. Or else. Get creative! Dont stick to plain MMO-law-cooldowns and animations for a game where half or even a quarter of a second can decide on wether you die or win.
IF you use healing in front of someone in a fight thats exactly what should happen, a slap in your face! If you can’t get out of los, run and hide, heal, then come back, well, you deserve to die! Isn’t this a savage brutal game? or is it a super sized stomach humans that can drink/eat loads of stuff and fight at the same time?
This should be skill based with actual weapon swings that decides a fight, not drinking potion simulator.
You want fights to be skill based and really competitive? Limit the healing! its simple as that. Make it more realistic so the fights are fair for both sides. Let the real healing power come with Sorcery.
Since the start of EA, this happened with Armos&Weapons, til most of the playerbase complained about the game being Gear>Skill, and as FC want the game to be Skill based (thank God), so they narrowed the numbers among the tiers.
Understand this, without an animation or cd for healing, the one who carry the most Potions/Food/Ambrosia, its the one who wins. (both players same skill scenario)
Oh, and about the PvE perspective, if you can’t kill a mob without abuse healing, I’m sorry, but its a learn to play issue.
Hm. I wonder about the range one has to get between the target and yourself in order to be able and heal yourself. (Assuming one would have to stay still during that animation, if not, it might go well with 4 seconds.) What kind of distance can someone cover in 4 seconds? I would guess 10-15 foundations?
Also… Are you honestly asking for reality in a game?
How is it real to carry the wood of whole trees, giant rocks and so on at the same time?
How is it real to have no movement/attack speed penalty on different armor?
How is it real to jump down a cliff, trying to climb as you almost reach the ground? (That would probably tear fingers apart.)
Not to meantion this mad (in a good way) sound when we fall too deep, that sounds as if your legs got smashed into ichor?
Should I go on?
Well… 8 dmg going up to 43+ dmg. If it was like you said, those numbers should probably be around 8-23…
With vitality and grit granting +2 or +3 on each point.
A skill based game would mean even an lvl 1 being able to kill a lvl 60 (afk killing doesnt count).
But with that big differences between HP/Stamina pools, that much difference between armors…
I dont think Conan Exiles is actually about skill over gear, gear still makes up like 75% or more of an encounter. (Against other players.)
Does that apply on black keep boss as well? Or on that named elephant or similar creatures?
Those eighter eat up 1/3 or more of your life in one hit (or bluntly onehit you like that elephant did with me)…
That said, at least for SP an serveroption to tune down boss creatures would be very, very neat. (And not depending on some mod to do that.)
Also if you want conan to be brutal, check out all the southern thralls - they are far too easy to kill. Also… Do enemy archers hurt at all? As I lost like 1/15 of my life on each shot earlier at dreg-camp. They even get killed by some scaleback if 3 thralls are set up against 1 scaleback…
I had a lot of encounters where I could be able to make a run, confuse the enemy player running around the nearby structures, climb, heal then come back (Archer build), the map is full of obstacles you can use.
Im not asking for reality in the game, Im asking to a solution on a matter that a lot of people are complaining, Overpower healing! And this not only can be solved with Animations but give more depth to the game aswell.
Didn’t you like the new combat animations? or are you that kind of crazy ppl that prefers the old boring combat?
Are you serious that you talking about killing an NPC that is supposed to be killed by A GROUP ? In dungeons you are supposed to have a party with you, BOSSES generally are killed with 2+ players, currently you are able to solo easily Black Keep because the game its still in beta.
In singleplayer this can be a different situation tho, it can be tuned down to meet one player style. Or you just could take Thralls with you.
Off course, even in multiplayer everything could be soloed, “with skill”, spamming healing mid fight its not skill, its bad/lazy development! not saying its the case of FC, they still have time to balance that.
You see, this issue with healing is affecting the majority of the player base who wants competitive PvP, so asking for animations/cds or whatever thing that could solve this problem is a real need for the game to be sucessful for this crowd. Not mentioning RP community.
Im sorry @Nuria, but you sound a bit rude in your words like someone young who just doesnt see the points in a dialogue but your own. Im not trying to convince you for drink/food have its animations, im trying to adress the problem, and the only solution (along with enriching experience) besides nerf the healing numbers (but that could bring more problems than solve), its to add animations.
As I think that might be a fair solution, maybe it wont work out as effective as intended. (That range issue with non connecting hits combined with healing being spammed even more to keep it up. Though I never used crafted poison…)
Might give another boost to daggers (bleeding, so that was meant by that in the last stream) and set arrows.
Hm. The only agressive players I encountered until now always had a bow on them. That said I was eighter in not that nice terrain (very open) or south of newbie river, trying to use trees as cover, which didnt work. (Didnt have any healing then…) Thus using environment as obstacles never worked out for me.
And why did you then not ask for lowering the strenght of healing, if healing is OP?
N.O. W.A.Y !!111!
(Though I liked old bow more. With holding and releasing an arrow myself. But that is the only thing.)
That is why an serveroption for this kind of NPC would be wonderful. I dont want to be forced to install some mod to archieve that. As for the tank tanking those enemies, they would need healing as well. Black keep is easy as that one moves that slow.
And yet I never read that from you. Only going on about animations and a wish for some cooldown. (which you backed off of, as animation should block spamming heal already) Last question from my side (as I already said above): Should we have to stand still during that animation? Would we be able to sprint or dodge?
What do you think about what Ren shared on that other topic?
Maybe that idea with animation would supplement it? (Like 2 seconds long, as healing will be canceled on taken hit? (and probably when you sprint/climb as well?))
It makes sense we being able to use a potion on the move, but not sprinting and dodgring for obvious reasons. In the case of food i think it should vary on the food type, insects, honey, plants and steaks could have avery quick animation while walking. Exotic/Religious feasts should have a sitting longer animation for its full healing duration effect to be complete, if you get up, the healing will stop.
I think the ideia of damage stop healing could work if we had more ranged / jump / charge(sprint?) attacks, because as we already know the hits are not that easy to land when someone is running, so they just could run and spam heal. Resuming, this wouldn’t solve the problem entirely, thats why I prefer animations, cause those makes the player have a decision that would save him or kill him in a fight. (see the skill pattern here?)
Now, even if the animations have 2 seconds long, its already something, better than instant consume as it is now. I don’t know about climbing, I think once you could heal yourself (with an animation) and run to climb for hide or whatever, the healing overtime could continue.
The problem is, the loosing player can just start to run in circles spamming heal til the hp bar fills, the attacker won’t be able (or with very difficult) to hit him with ranged. So, healing need some sort of limitaion on speed while using the iten that provides it, or a cd.