Battle Pass Killed The Game

[Taemien]

I think when I play PVP. Players should just pop like zits when I walk by. Why should it be mandatory that I engage them myself? FFS this thread lol.

[LZB_Gattsu]

It’s not pointless. That’s a false assumption on your part.

[Mavor]

My thoughts exactly.

[Taemien]

@LostBrythunian

Age of Sorcery seasonal limited rewards should, well, all be sorcery themed.

Most should be sorcery themed. Not all. They stated this in Beta and in the announcement livestreams that they would have some variety for those who are not playing as sorcerers.

It makes sense that most stuff would be for sorcery as sorcery was just added and such needs a bit of a head start which Age of Sorcery is providing.

[LostBrythunian]

This one is aware of what they said. This one holds that statement in the same esteem now as when it was first uttered. As this one’s opinion has not improved, that means no change is possible in that regard.

If the pass weren’t heavey on filler, this one might be more forgiving of the inclusion of the random.
As matters stand, unless we are calling graffiti, body paint, and coloured torches Sorcery, the actual sorcerous content is thin.
Oh look, a few one shot flasks for spells. Let’s pretend those aren’t going to be stock filler in every Battle Pass (This one would love to be wrong)
Behold, a dead horse.
Oh, but here’s a tattooed cat, barbarian football gear with mammoth tusk collars, and some Shrubberies.
At least one of them is an undead shrubbery.

Does slapping made in Acheron on something automatically make it sorcerous?

Bah.
If the soup is too thin already, throwing more random ingredients in doesn’t sweeten the pot, it dilutes it further.
Besides, why even bother trying to attract the non mages to the pass? The BP is one of the cheaper things out there. The Bazaar is where the real money is.
The Pass will be gotten by whoever wants what’s in it, everyone ruled by the dread demiurge of the profane tetragrammaton FOMO (altho you cannot see it this one is making an excellent spooky face for frightening children at campfire ghost stories), and all the compulsive collectors… Oh, and anyone who thinks they might want a future Pass might as well invest now and milk it while they wait. It doesn’t need random kibble.
This one might loathe BPs, but the one Funcom is running is probably the most benevolent version out there. It is, if one can even pretend to have discipline, a one time expenditure for what would cost significantly more in the Bazaar. It just needs to at least pretend to stay on topic. Ayesh, this one should be the most randumb and eclectic thing in the game, not the contents of the season pass.

This one finds the claims of wanting to make the pass appeal to those disinclined to the sorcery aspect of Sword and Sorcery perhaps a touch disingenuous. Instead, this one suspects it is a useful way to shove more sorcery related content out of the pass and into the realm of Black Lotus Big Spender land (Bazaar).
Ah, the Bazaar, where the toilet this one purchased last week still doesn’t work. Really, they should get their effluvium together.
…
…
…
Ok, that was a crappy joke.

But in all seriousness, the split between non-filler topical BP items and non-filler off topic items seems too thin on the side that is pertinent.

[Xevyr]

And, as long as people keep buying every crap they throw in anywhere… that is not going to change in any way.

If they can sell useless trash for good money, then what’s their incentive to improve? I just randomly stumbled upon a thread in the steam discussion where someone has half the bazaar bought-out and there’s people complaining that they’ve been waiting for sets for weeks and they took it down while they weren’t home so they couldn’t buy

All of that indicates that the shops are all working as intended… a big portion of the crowd buys everything they throw at them for any price… so again… what’s the incentive to improve the cheapo BP when they don’t even have incentive to improve the Bazaar cuz every “crappy toilet” that doesn’t even show up sells just fine?

[Taemien]

I’d also point out that while it feels nice to say that even thought he amount sold in the bazaar is only one way of looking at feedback, and that voicing out concerns and opinions is another. One is a proven form of feedback, the other is theoretical.

Many of us (myself included) have stated we would be more inclined to purchase more. However there is no proof that we actually would. Whereas those who have made purchases have proven that they will make purchases.

Now one thing I have requested in the past is for when people DO wish to voice feedback that they be more specific. List the actual price they WOULD be willing to pay. Simply saying things like, “well I’ll never buy it like this,” or similar is only going to tell the marketing and finance guys that you don’t intend to buy at all and they should not cater.

But no one ever bothers to do so. They won’t list the items they want to buy at the prices they are willing to pay. That is actual feedback and it is something they could take inter consideration. Right now they have a thriving Bazaar, as Xevyr has pointed out, with a few disgruntled players in their official forums who according to the ones making the decisions, cannot be persuaded to buy anything. Especially considering this is the platform of ‘Funcom Bad’ and ‘Funcom can do no right’.

[Barnes]

@Xevyr

And, as long as people keep buying every crap they throw in anywhere… that is not going to change in any way.

This is rather the nut of the issue about which @Yshtola is still valiantly shoveling against the tide. We want to show them we’re not happy with the Bazaar, fine, no buy. But the BP is not optional – it’s do it and get the rose bushes, or do it not and pound sand. Therefore only other place we have to voice our concerns is here, which is why I must again ask for peace and fewer derisive comments about our (admittedly mild) disapproval.

[Taemien]

@Palm523

they are here to milk everyone as much as they can. i for once though funcom did listen to community, and in the past they did, now they are blind and deaf, with a feel of placing their hands in the pockets of anyone who let them.

So this isn’t true when it comes to Battlepass.

Several threads over the years popped up about the Atlantean Sword and Royal Armor. People thought that enough time elapsed and they’d like to be able to have a shot at getting it. One even suggested it should be an ingame reward for time played.

The community shut them down. Some people in this thread even participated in that (not me, I agreed to a point that the stuff shouldn’t be FOMO’d, just not agreeing to have stuff I purchased get handed out for effectively free).

Funcom listened. Funcom listened to the people who said such items should be exclusive and gated to the time they were available. They listened even to some people in this very thread who have since changed their tune.

This community is reaping what it sowed. And now it is being fertilized by people with much larger disposable incomes.

[Xevyr]

@Palm523

can anyone please explain to me, what does it mean to keep the lights on?

That is NOT a thing… I know people like to use that phrase… but we’re talking about a company here, not a charity organization.

As such… there is no limit… the more money they make… the more money they make… and that’s it… since that’s their goal… making money It’s also not a finite thing… there is no “end goal”… there’s just the ongoing goal of making as much money as they possibly can… So any theories of “they need a bit of money to get back on their feet and they’ll reduce the prices after” is absolute BS

They will only reduce the prices when they NEED to in order to increase sales and as such increase their overall income. And that will not change no matter how many promises or smiles Dennis does on camera, since he also has a job and isn’t the pastor of the local charity church…

Now couple all of that with the fact that the engine is now old… and the game has been around for quite a while… they have even more incentive to just try and milk people as much as possible… since interest tends to go down overtime for dated games unless they manage to get with times and do engine upgrades and whatnot (which in the case of conan will probably not happen). As harsh as it sounds, they literally have no incentive to “be nice” from a financial point of view to players… so if they can take your whole wallet, they’ll do so and won’t hesitate to ask what else you got stashed away in the bank

@Taemien

Now one thing I have requested in the past is for when people DO wish to voice feedback that they be more specific. List the actual price they WOULD be willing to pay.

Hmm… fair enough
In my case I’d probably think that 20% or lower of the current Bazaar prices would be acceptable and if that were the case I’d really start browsing it and actually attempt to buy things. Atm I completely ignore it, I never even check it, pretty much forgot it exists

[Barnes]

@Palm523

there is nothing to listen , the items WERE pre order only, and we are long gone from preorder, however how they change things in their next conan exiles tittle, will tell if they listened to that part.

Just because Funcom plowed on doesn’t mean they listened. In fact, there’s no proof they’re listening anymore at all. So I agree with you.

Here’s a question: can non-owners of the Atl Sword or Roy Armor use and/or equip it?

@Palm523

how many games does pre order items? many iirc , and some might come and complaint…

Over the Holidays I bought the Anno 1800 Complete Edition, and it includes the Pre-Order DLC. Some of the items even say pre-order lingo like “Pre Order Statue of Brotherhood” and it makes me feel bad.

[auticus]

@Yshtola

No, it’s more saying people need to stop hand waving that “it’s optional, it’s not necessary”. When the same people would sit and throw a bitch fit if it was something that mattered to them.

I appreciate you thinking that you can speak for me and inject words in my mouth on how I would respond. See - I don’t pitch a bitch fit for things that are optional. I move on and find other things. I’ve done that with countless games and hobbies.

Now your next piece

@Yshtola

If FC stepped up and started putting other things in the Battle Pass, beyond the cosmetic skins and building items, it would be interesting to see how many that previously waved their hands acting like the current BLB or BP aren’t a big deal, because it’s not something they care about, would step up and start raging against it.

You’re building up an imaginary scenario that has never happened and then attacking it.

If FC stepped in and started putting other things in Battle Pass, I’d still not care. I do the battle pass. Its fairly cheap. If I didn’t want to do the battle pass, and these things were required of me then I’d… go find a different game to play. Just like that. I certainly wouldn’t spend MONTHS bleating like a sheep over the same topic.

If dungeons were behind a pay wall, … guess what my dude. Other companies have already done that. Since like 18 years ago or so. And you know what I’ve done with those? Paid for the ones I cared about, moved on to other games for the ones I didn’t.

Your standing on the slippery slope and inventing scenarios that haven’t happened and then fighting your crusade on them is illogical and has no bearing for proper discourse because you’re ranting against things that aren’t a thing.

For right now - cosmetics are just optional.

They are just optional.

They are just optional.

They are just optional.

And… they are just optional.

For the rest of you that are raging on just basic corporate policies - yep. Thats what companies do. They have to turn a profit. And every year that profit has to be bigger than the year prior or the shareholders get angry and people get fired.

You want to fight that? Stop buying games from AAA studios that are corporate / shareholder backed. Stick to indie games and support the smaller devs. Thats the only real meaningful change you are going to enact. If you think screaming on their forums about how profiteering is bad is going to make anyone at FC or Ten Cent with the ability to make decisions change their mind, you’ve been watching too many karen videos demanding to speak to their managers like its going to work.

So long as they are meeting their financial goals for the quarter, they are going to keep on keeping on. And yep that means people with disposable income who enjoy the game are going to plug quarters into the machine and those goals are going to be met.

Thats just what we call reality. Back the indie devs if you want to enact change. Better yet - strike out on your own and make your own game studio and be the change you want. You’re not going to get it by screaming at AAA studios about corporate greed.

[Taemien]

@Xevyr

Hmm… fair enough
In my case I’d probably think that 20% or lower of the current Bazaar prices would be acceptable and if that were the case I’d really start browsing it and actually attempt to buy things. Atm I completely ignore it, I never even check it, pretty much forgot it exists

I think I stated 30% when I’ve had conversations about it. Which is what I still hold to be about fair for me.

[Taemien]

Well that is the kick in the pants isn’t it? People with more money than you and I are disagreeing

[CodeMage]

@LostBrythunian

But in all seriousness, the split between non-filler topical BP items and non-filler off topic items seems too thin on the side that is pertinent.

We only have two data points right now – chapter 1 and chapter 2 – but those two points currently plot a line that indicates a worsening trend.

Here’s the breakdown of chapter 1 rewards, with my subjective opinion on how “on-topic” (i.e. thematically appropriate) they were:

• 3 sets of armor:
  • Theurgical Aegis: worn by sorcerers, gives bonuses that should be useful for sorcerers, definitely on-topic
  • Fiend: supposedly made by a cult of demon-worshippers, less bonuses and less protection than Theurgical Aegis, somewhat on-topic
  • Gurnakhi: not related to sorcery, filler
• 2 weapons: 1 is a staff (although I haven’t crafted it to see if it lets you cast spells), 1 is a filler axe
• 4 pet skins: 3 related to sorcery (abyssal hound, undead horse, wight horse), 1 filler (armored hyena)
• 1 saddle that’s clearly a filler
• 2 sets of building pieces: they have “arcane” in their name and give out that “sorcerer’s dwelling” vibe, so let’s consider them on-topic
• 4 colored torches: although they’re nice, they’re not really related to sorcery
• 9 placeables: 8 related to sorcery to varying degrees, 1 (oil lamp) that has a description that wants us to believe it’s thematically appropriate but it’s really a filler in disguise
• 3 floor paints: only 1 related to sorcery (pentacle), the rest are definitely fillers
• 4 wall paints:
  • 2 are supposed to be about sorcery (thaumaturgy and necromancy) but you have to know it before seeing it
  • 1 is marginally related to sorcery (skull) but at least it looks cool
  • 1 is definitely a filler (croc)
• 3 illusory items: not related to sorcery, character-bound instead of account-bound, the cheapest fillers you can come up with
• 7 potions: all related to sorcery, but character-bound instead of account-bound
• 4 emotes: none related to sorcery
• 4 warpaints: 2 related to sorcery, 2 fillers
• 10 bundles of Crom coins

By my subjective count, that’s 29 rewards that are at least somewhat related to sorcery, 7 of which are single-use rewards that you can only claim with one character, bringing the total down to 22 rewards that you get to reuse. Out of 60 total. As an aside, and speaking of that total, a whopping 1/3 of all rewards in the Battle Pass are single-use rewards.

Now let’s look at chapter 2:

• 2 sets of armor, both sorcery-related in appearance, at least
• 1 helmet, not sorcery-related, which happens to be a reskin of an existing DLC item
• 3 weapons:
  • the Ophidian Magi Scepter and Ophidian Magi Bow are sorcery-related in name (“magi”), although their descriptions indicate they’re used by guards and priests of Set, but let’s consider them on-topic
  • Talons of Karmanthes are not sorcery-related
• 3 pet skins: 1 is nominally sorcery-related (Ophidian Magi cat), 2 are fillers
• 1 saddle, nominally sorcery-related
• no building pieces whatsoever
• 2 colored torches, not related to sorcery
• 11 placeables, 6 related to sorcery to varying degrees, 4 definite fillers (mulch, rose bush, cypress tree, crystal statue), 1 that could be considered sorcery-related if you squint (cursed tree)
• 1 crafting station (Magian chalk circle), definitely sorcery-related
• 7 floor paints: 1 sorcery-related, 6 fillers
• 6 wall paints, all fillers
• no illusory items
• 7 potions: all related to sorcery, but character-bound instead of account-bound
• 3 emotes, all fillers
• 3 warpaints, all fillers
• 10 bundles of Crom coins

The total here is 22 rewards that are at least somewhat related to sorcery, 7 of which are single-use, which brings the total down to 15 reusable.

If anyone from Funcom is still reading this far in this thread, I hope they realize that the Battle Pass offerings are rather discouraging. I apologize for being blunt here, but the epithets that come to mind here is “cheap” and “low-effort”.

And yes, I realize we only have to pay the 1200 Crom coins once and then we keep getting the rewards for “free” – not really free when you count the effort involved in completing the pass – but even so, it feels like perfunctory effort.

[darthphysicist]

I think what may appear perfunctory is that because its new, they need to get a gauge on its potential impact on revenue. Its not inconceivable that it needs some data to see how people interact with the battlepass to get a feel for more intense investment as time goes on. It is probably a tough sell to say “Spend $5M on battlepass development with an unknown ROI” vs saying “okay, lets spend $1M over the next year, and if the return is good, we’ll sink another $4M”. These are just my personal throw away numbers for thought, not claiming to know, but in a business meeting, I can imagine that conversation and how each would be received.

[Xevyr]

I swear… if I see one more colored torch… …

[erjoh]

@CodeMage

could be considered sorcery-related if you squint

I love your analysis

@CodeMage

And yes, I realize we only have to pay the 1200 Crom coins once and then we keep getting the rewards for “free” – not really free when you count the effort involved in completing the pass – but even so, it feels like perfunctory effort.

This shouldn’t even be a consideration as 1200 is 1200 is 1200. This BP was significantly less bang for the buck. I would rate Chapter 1 as superb value and 3-4X a monthly bazaar bundle purchase. Chapter 2 is more like 2-3x…that isn’t a good trend to put out there so I hope FC is watching this because it’s not going to show in the sales #'s because it’s still a value…just not as good of one.

[LostBrythunian]

This one does want to opine a moment.
Either tune out because this will be a ramble or get comfy. Also, this one is leaving the always dislikes battle pass format at the door as hopefully everyone literate in the thread knows it by now and the context it provides is not really pertinent to the following.

Other than the graffiti, temp tattoos, and especially new paint jobs on existing items…

This one likes on some level the vast majority of items offered in both seasons of the pass.
The Githyanki (whoever they are) gear looks appropriately savage and fierce. Plantable trees and bushes are a long desired inclusion. This one has nothing but praise for their addition. The furnishings and placeables have generally been down right lavish. The pet skins (leaving the problem with pets at the door) are distinct and varied. At no point should this one’s grumbles about their inclusion on the pass be mistaken for grumbles about them being offered for sell.

The only things this one will flat out condemn the sell of are assets already existent. For example, emotes we already see NPCs using, crossbows which this one could admin spawn until recent update, placeables we already see strewn about in the world. The included in base price of game expansions are the perfect place for those. This one will also side eye items that are merely a coat of paint on other items. A gold helm that is just dye channels of an existing dlc helm? Really guys? Especially when Conan, Subotai, and Valeria’s armour sets from the movie aren’t included yet. Seriously, of we are going Movie merch, give us the good stuff. A bowl with green soup and human parts! A funeral pyre that illuminates like a brazier, possibly burns bodies/fueled by human flesh? The triple bladed axe, the Bavarian Festival Hammer, Valeria’s sabre as a katana skin, the Tree of Woe as an alternative skin for either the Wheel of Pain or for the sacrifice stone.
Bad Brythunian. Back on topic.

Where the irritation sets in is the format.
This one would much prefer the rose bush and the cedar tree be packaged with creeping vines and hedge maze as a garden set for the Bazaar.
The Girthnagi Set could live with the other Gurggaji gear and possibly some lore about what these (and those with greater lore please correct this one) other than Howardian Hyborians. Can we now make Gurdy-hurdy characters? Do they have a “god”? Will Girthiani NPCs be spawning at some point?

This one does believe Funcom takes feedback into consideration. The format for the Stormglass Cathedral set this one includes as evidence in favour of that.

If the Battle Pass format must exist (spoiler alert: It’s unlikely to go anywhere) then let it be improved.
Greater Clarity of intent and tighter unity of theme. Perhaps cut down on the filler items (coloured torches for example). This will be a bit of a challenge given the desire to avoid overt advantage for time limited premium items. But look at areas where the existing placeables don’t fit the current mood. Perhaps a new drinking fountain of creepy design. Or a new Grinder/Fluid Press look. All use those and the rough stone grinder looks a bit out of place in a Stormglass chateau. Want a new light source? Instead of a coloured torch, make a skull that glows like a radium gem.
As far as Off Topic items. No stop that. Keep them related. The events of this Season lean heavily into Mek-Kamoses and his Khitan minions. So anything Stygian or Khitai themed could fit as well. See, it’s not sorcery but it’s also not random. Also, placement of rewards could be tightened.
The pass starts with the tools of the minions and the lesser foes but later levels get circles of power, Acheronian accoutrements and ophidan magi outfits.
Many of the items in the new Headhunter Package in the Bazaar would have been perfect for the Battle Pass as they represent a snap shot of the game and story progression.

[Taemien]

@Xevyr

I swear… if I see one more colored torch… …

This actually might be my fault.

We haven’t seen all colors for protected torches… and we haven’t seen hand-held ones yet. So I suspect 1-3 more chapters containing them lol.