I completely agree.
New hyperarmor nerfed the majority of the weapons and in some cases simply killed some weapons not only in PVP but in PVE too.
The previous system wasn’t perfect but it was infinitely better than what we have right now. Why even bother to use weapons with slow animations aka the majority of 2h weapons when a simple poke or quick swing can stagger them? Those weapons were trade weapons and had strong hyper to be viable.
Now we have this weird Frankenstein Bloodborne wanna-be system. I honestly hope Chapter 3 will be the last time they touch combat systems, weapons, and anything balance-related.
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Maybe not, but some changes have been good. The building hammer is definitely one of them. As a builder, it took me some time to get use to it, but the copy/paste and other features have been great. The only drawback was making benches unable to be moved, which came in handy for siptah transfers where I could build a delving bench and bring it over.
The part regarding hyper armor.
It’s insane that I now get staggered out of my 2h heavy hammer swing…
Didn’t they mention something about hyper armor for 2h heavy attacks !?
Lies. Just lies again…
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The notes on Hyper Armor claim that hyper frames occur when an attack has the most possible momentum. The result is that the window for interruption is enormous, and heavy weapons don’t have the hyper frames to get past the wind-up phase. The 2h axe is only an exception because it has a weirdly fast 1st light attack.
Funcom is doing this weird thing where they’re trying to mimic souls-like combat, but on an outdated engine that’s WAY too laggy for the sort of reactive system they want.
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Arrows after some distance start loosing altitude.
You cant hit nothing if you’re not close
This game’s community, so funny.
People bring knives to gun fights and call the pistolier a coward.
Peak comedy.
Melee is (and has long been) a mess that rewards target lock lag-spoiltation (not an actual exploit, but more like a 'sploitation film), especially with daggers and now spears (and occasionally the 2h axe, but then you have the embarrassment of actually using the 2h axe light attack pugil stick shoves).
During PvP hours, one should always be vigilant.
One should always expect to be attacked if they step in the ring during the Royal Rumble.
Don’t want to get shot?
Perhaps don’t stand out in a wide open area with clear lines of sight on you in every direction.
The game has already had it’s survival aspects basically gutted This one does not look forward to further nerfs aimed at placating the crowd that thinks target lock spam Feroxic daggers is nuanced combat.
Edit: that was unnecessarily spiteful.
However, the point stands that complaining about archery being meta while demanding others walk up so one may use the meta daggers and spears is a touch disingenuous.
Oh no, there may be a situation where one isn’t always at advantage… Pure tragedy…
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Can tell you have never pvp’d outside official or Coop abusing Q-Lock.
The bow it’s used as a shotgun because it kills you in three hits, plus you can roll forever.
Maybe you’re used to fight vs Darfari Archers level 2 but a good archer will kill you middle roll, and if you hige behind something he will simply chase you.
I don’t really understand why PVE people talk about pvp related stuff.
What server are you on, prey animal?
This one looks forward to hunting you for sport.
Are you on PStato or does this one have to borrow a laptop to skin you?
Also, most attacks kill in 3 hits (used to be 4)
And rolling thrust makes everything free.
Including spear pokes, which don’t require charging and have a 100+ damage version floating around
Daggers take more than 3, but they get 5 attacks in the span most weapons get 3 anyway.
It’s not an engine problem, it’s a design problem.
They try to mimic DS/BB combat but they can’t really do it without implementing a poise system into the game. Without poise DS combat will have the same problems we see in the current CE build.
Thankyou kindly for the agreement @Rust. I have had forays into PvP over the years, but I have always been at home in Offline Singleplayer mode. You are right, they are slow and very weak in PvE. I support your your verhement no.
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It is kinda funny that every nerf opposing commenter has ignored the fact that the player in the video got killed within 3 seconds with THREE HEAVY BOW ATTACKS.
Why do I say this? Because I read stuff like this:
Nerf the bow damage so you need 5 heavy shots to kill a player like most melee weapons. Slap a 2.0x - 3.0x PvE damage multiplicator on it and see how it plays.
There, nerfed for PvP but probably even buffed for PvE. Done. Problem solved.
No. Because the bow isn’t the problem. If you want to nerf bow damage so that it does 60% less damage, then spears and daggers also need their damage cut by 60%. But then another weapon will be OP in its place. All due to rolling thrust. Take rolling thrust out or mitigate its effect, and everything falls in line.
Everyone’s avoiding this statement pretty fierce… wonder why?
On top of that nerf great axes as well by 60%.
Then lets see which weapons will get used in PvP.
Because the OPness of the Agility attribute has been discussed thouroughly in other threads before.
The problem with bows is that you don’t need to charge for 2 seconds. You can charge it during roll so you can immediately heavy shot for full damage when coming out of the roll. This is the bug that gets abused. This is the reason why you can delete players within 3 seconds despite having to charge the heavy attack for 2 seconds.
On top of that comes rolling thrust and the interaction with projectiles.
But despite all that, you want to nerf the base damage of an entire class of weapons that isn’t OP on its own, just because?
Just be honest, you don’t want to see bows in PVP period. Just say that. Stop beating around the bush.
You do understand that howling for a weapon nerf rather than a bug fix is one of the sources of ridicule on the other side of the fence, yes?
It’s hard to take calls for “balance” seriously when they all hinge on being a counter measure against something that isn’t working as intended.
Bows should not be able to be charged while rolling.
That shouldn’t be controversial.
Rolling Thurst (is it’s own pile of problems) should not be applicable to ranged attacks.
There’s the solution to Bow’sploitation.
But that’s not what’s being asked for.
No, some heavy handed nerf is being asked for.
Why?
Because the documented issue is bait for a different purpose.
It’s because some players want to wander around on PvP servers with an empty skull and not have to act like they are in the kill zone.
Yes, there is a video demonstrating an issue.
But the solution being suggested is related only by torture to the prosecution’s exhibit.
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For the op i will say only this. Carry a shield, it’s 3 shot not one shot.
For pve now what’s making bows “lower” than other weapons is that you cannot retrieve arrows. Archery IS expensive and it still remains late game build. A player that will decide to grow only as archer, level up is very difficult and it seems unfair across the melee weapons. But i believe that these differences is to cover other parts as…
- Armor durability. An archer don’t have frequent contacts with his enemies so the armor has huge life without being repaired.
- Healing items. An archer rarely uses healing items because of less contact with the opponents.
These 2 reasons however do not seem to balance all the rest in my opinion. There for, once more i will ask a part of arrows an archer use, to exist on the loot corpse of the prey.
Now about rolling thrust in archery! When it comes to pve it’s really viable in the beginning since a player can build the first 20 points on agilty only, but in late game rolling thrust seems broken, you can literally “play” bosses with this perk. But there are some melee weapons that’s making archery joke, like momentum. You can literally charge with this mace mostly to all the world bosses and melt them in seconds alone. Making roling thrust look like joke in front of this melee performance 
.
Last pve complain. Dragon bone arrows, obsidian arrows worst than hardened steel?
Mistake!!! They shoud be at least equal.
Back to pvp. I saw something in this video that gave me thoughts. The player is taking damage through dodge. Is this correct? Shouldn’t dodge have “immunity” to damage? Not that i see reality to this, but who speaks about reality here 
. If we were speaking about reality arrows on head are one shot anyway.
Ps. If the player was playing 20agi,20vit,20grit using Tulwar and blackburry shield, would he be less threat to his enemies?
Would he die in 3 shots?
No!
Armor durability is non factor in pvp. You’ll die faster or get it stolen faster than you approach low durability on a majority of end-game pieces.
Rolling thrust is only a part of the problem with CE PvP. Roll abuse should be fixed but even without RT abuse we have too much armor pen on certain weapons and bows. What’s the point in wearing pieces with high amount of armor if the difference is negligible? Some end-game archery combinations reach numbers close to 90% armor pen. Combine it with q-lock spam and you have easy to use spam weapon with almost 0 drawbacks in group pvp.
Quite easy to explain. It’s server lag and packet loss. You dodge on your screen but the server didn’t receive that info so for others you still run or stand. At a certain threshold, it even benefits a person with high ping if they know how to abuse it.
We can see the same-ish issue in every DS game and ER when players hit others during their i-frames but they still get DoT build-up
Yes, they will.
Since hyper armor rework majority of the weapon list received nothing but heavy nerf. Attack animation that was meant to act within previous hyperarmor rules lost its previous viability and now combat prefers quick attacks that can hit your opponent before they enter into the apex of their swing and activate the new “hyper armor” window.
That’s why a majority of the fights is nothing but spear rolling thrust (i-frames+dmg+armor pen buffs) 1st heavy, 1h sword 1 light spam (quick animation that’s faster than the majority of the other weapons.) and bow due to low risks high reward gameplay in group fights. Add daggers 1st light q-lock spam and 2h axe sprint attack spam to the mix and you’ll get new pvp that punishes weapons for having slow animations and actively promotes overuse of rolling thrust and “poke and run” gameplay.
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Forums had many discussions about this and had some consistent ideas. Removal or rework of movement speed perk, rework of rolling thrust etc.
Funcom could literally just edit those 2 perks, add some new weapon or expand/rework unrepresented weapons in the previous system and keep a majority of the community happy or at least content with how things work.
Instead, they implement stamina rework no one asked for, hyper armor changes no one asked for and I dread what else they will add or rework in chapter 3.
A wide majority if not all private pvp and even rp pvp servers changed stamina regen values back to the previous values. No grey stam, high stam regen and abuse of rolling thrust turned CE combat into some arcade 0 brain activity thing.
We need much more than a rolling thrust rework to have a somewhat enjoyable system but it won’t happen. This amount of work for free doesn’t sit well with Funcom’s new policy. One more update and we will finally have the “final version” of CE combat we will be able to fix and adjust via mods. I hope next age won’t touch anything combat-related. We had enough of their “bright ideas”.
Tbh, I don’t care anymore how they do it. All I want is a balanced playing field.
Getting 3 shot by 1 archer is not balanced. There is a reason why most private PvP servers have a rule that allows only 1 archer per clan.
A direct weapon nerf with a PvE multiplicator is easier to implement for Funcom than fixing the charging exploit and rolling thrust interactions. In fact, I highly believe that Funcom is too incompetent to fix these issues.
So I promote a simpler solution that can be implemented more quickly more easily:
Change hits to kill from 3 to 5 on endgame bow equipment and change the lower tiers respectively. Additionally add a PvE damage multiplicator to weapon classes to mitigate PvP changes that will affect PvE.
In that case @SirDaveWolf, with all the politeness I can muster, I would much prefer to see Funcom correct the bug first and foremost. Not just from a bug and a balance standpoint, but even a realism one too. I mean seriously, how many people out there can perform a roll while keeping a 60lb Bow pulled back!? It’s absurd. This should be fixed hands down.
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