For the love of crom. Stop buffing roll canceling. it has been nothing but rolls for years now. At some point it seemed like a good idea to remove animation canceling, but you couldn’t because the combat system is terrible. This is why you had to leave roll canceling in the game. the majority of the best players was using weapon swap canceling, and you have repeatedly moved away from it. while making changes like adding heal animation, and running attacks. The changes being made do not complement each other, and was far better before. The combat systems that was in place before worked far better.
Bring back weapon swap animation canceling, reduce the heal timers, nurf the heavy hitting roll spam builds, and add more dynamics to the raid and raid defense systems. its been years without change. do this and your game will come back to life.
But I agree, that instant stamina regeneration after dodging must go, that made the poke and roll “”“”“tactic”“”“” even worse. Even I, a simple single player hates this change.
I do believe that the entire problem is centered around not giving up on the ridiculously long animations after attacking. Without a change in this we need weapon swap canceling back to offset the combat changes that has yet again buffed roll canceling.
Animation canceling was a gimmick, an unintentional feature in the game, that was exploited. It wasn’t a measure of skill, it was simply abusing a game mechanic in a way it wasn’t meant to be used.
I mean, really. Do you actually want a game where the best players need to constantly pocket their weapon and draw another so as to be effective? Can you imagine an action movie where Zorro sheathes his saber in the middle of drawing a Z on his opponent’s pants buttocks, and finishes the letter with his whip? And then repeats this maneuver against every opponent?
No, it may be a cool trick once, but not something you’d use all the time.
Thank you @Kapoteeni , he explained well, what the problem was.
It’s not a skill. And it just looked absurd, when somebody could change weapons mid-swing. That’s a very cheap move.
it 100% took skill to do, and even further you could still be hit. If you think that that was not how the game was intended to be played. Then i would love to hear your take on the current abuse of roll canceling. In doing so you can not be hit, and also never have a need to use any combinations of attacks again. I challenge you this. play the game for one day without roll canceling. just use the mechanics as intended, and tell us how your experience was. If roll canceling stays. Then so should Swapping. Anyone that disagrees must have been a victim to something that they didn’t understand. Now more than ever. with the change in hyper armor. this would truly require more skill than ever. Not just cheesy builds, and roll canceling after every single attack.
And you don’t think rolling away mid attack is cheap at all? I do not think that canceling at all is the answer. I’m saying that for the combat systems that they have tried. It was by far the best. We won’t even mention how bad sorcery is. Pike and roll is what new players took up with a long time ago. while we was ruling servers. they was in the forums crying. Now in that, pike and roll has become the entire combat system. so unless they are going to add a attack canceling option, and reduce the pain of being stuck standing still after an attack, and while you heal. then yes, swapping is the answer for now.
I have to add nothing about this game is realistic. You never seen zorro pushing anyone though to an ob. (not intended) teleporting with thralls, duplicating wells, killing people by jumping on their heads, jumping from the top of a volcano without fall damage, etc… the list is a mile long. I bet even zorro couldn’t hold a two handed hammer, roll, swap to a set of daggers mid roll, roll again swap to a bow, fire the bow and roll 12 times in a row, roll again, swap to a pike that he pulled out of his back side, pike and roll 5 times, roll, switch to bow again mid roll, fire bow 10 more times (rolling after every shot), mid roll switch a two handed axe, roll and attack 12 more times. Then pick up 1000lbs of stuff, and teleport home.
Poke roll should go too. The new stamina system should go. Sorcery should also go, in my opinion, it was added, has flaws, and now is abandoned with its problems.
I proposed a segmented stamina system, if they want to change the stamina system any way, and see how it goes.
But the fight now seems okay, but with the OLDER stamina system. That would probably negate this pokeroll nonsense too. No pokeroll, no spamming with the shield up (that was a thing long ago), no animation canceling would be good.
I just hate to see pvp “fights” with people just jumping, rolling around like effing children…
But anyways, folks WILL find ways to cheese the system.
Animation canceling is a mechanic that pops up in several games and in all cases its an exploit that a vocal few wish to keep in because it gives them a slight edge over those who don’t know it exists. Either PVE players can parse better, or PVP can get a bit of extra damage in.
In every iteration its a clunky mess that turns every combat system it appears in, into a shadow of what it could be and becomes utter garbage.
Developers that take the measures needed to curb, mitigate, or eliminate these mechanics in their games have always made the correct decision in doing so.
I still stand by this. If your server has the default setting of 0.1 for stamina regeneration delay, then THAT is the problem with people getting their stamina back too fast. The FIX is for them to change that to at least 1.0, but 1.5 would be better, and 2.0 probably the best for PVP (I wouldn’t go much higher for PVE based servers). In addition the exhaustion delay of 0.1 makes running out of stamina irrelevant. Again for PVP servers you want this to be set to at LEAST 3.0, with 5.0 being preferred. And PVE does not want to go any higher than that.
With the settings I mentioned, you can, but I don’t recommend it unless you absolutely need to. Since you’ll need to wait a few seconds to get any stamina back, and if you run out, you’re dead in the water for a bit longer.
Rolling Thrust is a bit of an issue still. But that’s a perk that needs an adjustment, not the entire system.
Weapon swap/unwield canceling was a bad mechanic and I’m glad it’s gone. Yes, it took skill, but a skill that it doesn’t make any logical sense for a fighter to have. A very videogamey type of skill. One of Conan’s biggest strengths is that the fighting is straightforward and makes logical sense, which makes it easy for new players to pick up and play. The old animation cancelling was too obtuse and greatly increased the skill floor of the game, which is a bad thing if you want to attract new players.
The roll spam meta is also very bad, so bad that I went to the effort of modding in an option to revert it for anyone who uses my flagship mod. Still, the solution to a bad idea is not to replace it with a worse idea.
Catering game design towards the most skilled players is a popular thing for people to request but it never works out. Any multiplayer game needs to see growth or it starts to feel stagnant. Animation cancelling made it far less likely that a new player would stick around. If you want to just play with the same couple dozen people every time with no community growth then sure, animation cancelling is great.
If they want to fix the roll meta then all they need to do is take away the free attack from Rolling Thrust, take away cripple from the first Spear heavy attack, and prevent players from rolling if the player doesn’t actually have as much stamina as the roll would cost. That’s it. The first two of those changes are now long proven on my server with extremely positive feedback.
I understand what you are trying to say, but once again i challenge you to play this game on a pvp server, and without buffing yourself in the settings without canceling. the entire reason for canceling. Is the ridiculous animations after attacking. If you remove options for canceling these all together. fighting waves of adds, or multiple people will be impossible. Then you would find the weapons with the shortest animation would be the only ones used. The entire animation system needs to be fixed. Im all for no canceling, but to tell me that the current state of roll canceling is fine, but swapping was ridiculous. I urgently request you examine the combination from my previous reply. That is entirely possible right now, and 100% should not be.
I understand, it’s so powerful that if one person uses it then everyone else has to as well or they just lose, and of course there will always be at least one person who uses it because it’s an advantage and it’s available. When I speak of the roll meta I’m not specifically talking about the animation cancelling part of it, more about how rolls can just be spammed infinitely with no downside.
Rolls cancelling animations is not the problem (and at least makes more logical sense than putting your weapon away and pulling it out again within a split second). The problem is how spammable rolling is, which is what the third recommendation I posted and the rolling stamina regen settings in my mod both aim to address.
Fair point on the animations, many of them have some fairly ridiculous end lag and are either too slow, too narrow, or too short-ranged to stand much chance of actually hitting a moving player. The turn-while-attacking change has helped a lot with this though, so I have faith it can be saved.
I’m going just state one more time. trying to bring any logic to the idea that you you possibly roll mid attack from any extremely heavy weapons, then mid roll put that weapon away, grab a different weapon, attack, and do the same thing over again. Yet to say that me wanting to just swap weapons without rolling is silly. makes me feel like you have been violated by someone swapping while you was rolling.
The real problem with animation canceling is and always has been the exploitation of animation canceling.
Animation canceling is a function that smooths out gameplay and makes the game more responsive to the player’s commands.
Unfortunately there is a small and very vocal group of players that choose to exploit this function in ways that were never intended to give themselves an unfair advantage. Just like they try to do with every possible loophole, bug and quirk in the game systems and they will never admit that it is in every practical sense just cheating without technically violating the rules.
I agree, if they would just nurf it all, and make it where you can fight without it. you can’t tho. the combat animations are far too long, and ruins position by missing one attack. Now though if we are having the conversation of what should or shouldn’t be. Realistic, not Realistic, or cheating. Aint no dang way you wear no armor at all get hit with a two handed axe then roll away. Everyone acting like the stun locks are new too. that was a huge part of fighting years ago. It was just based off of hyper armor, that was determined by different weapons, and the combo that was in play at the time. This was called the trade. Now tho, you can simply roll out of bad positions and counter until you finally get a hit in. No way this is a more skilled way of fighting.
