daggers do less physical damage than other weapons
daggers have the shortest range of any weapon
daggers take both hands to wield
daggers cannot be used on horseback
Please add any that I’ve missed. They don’t seem OP to me. I’ve played on PvP servers for many hours (800+). The most dangerous weapons I’ve had to deal with are bows and the various ammunition they can shoot. IMO it all comes down to how you use them, how good you are at using them and how good you are at countering them. The game gives you everything you need to do that.
Okay, so it’s those daggers that are the problem, not all daggers? It’s the combination of long reach and DoT, on light attack? Did I get it?
Yep, looks like I got it. Thanks for actually explaining the problem.
Now if you could only refrain from pointless trolling like that, maybe we could turn this thread into a decent discussion
I mean, you’re quoting the words I used – “generic complaining” – and applying them to everything on this thread, which definitely not what I said. Why? Does this whole “you can’t discuss PVP on these forums because people won’t let you” spiel actually add anything?
I play in the Exiled Lands so I guess I cannot speak to their OPness in IoS. In the EL they seem balanced to me.
On another note about a combat mechanic that was mentioned before, I think the auto target ability should be removed and a lot of these combat issues would be resolved. The dagger light attack, for example, would be a lot harder to land against a dodging opponent. That would make it much harder for a dagger wielding foe to get within range.
On the other hand, auto targeting a dagger wielder and using a spear seems like it would counter their light attacks and keep them at range. If you land a combo on them with the spear that leaves them crippled and bleeding then it makes it that much more difficult for them to close the distance. Dagger players need to close the distance to engage in combat, and even though their light attacks allow them to dash in a bit, their attack doesn’t land unless they are in that tiny hit range. Don’t dodges and blocks counter this tactic? Can’t their light attacks be interrupted? There seem to be enough counters for daggers to make them balanced in PvP.
saying auto-lock makes it easier for less skilled or console players and therefore shouldn’t be removed, but also saying that auto-lock makes some weapons OP seems like a contradiction to me. Either you want it because it makes things easier or you don’t want it because it makes things harder.
To me, it’s like saying that hit scan characters in Overwatch should be removed because not everyone has the skill to aim well, but if you keep the hit scan characters then they should be nerfed because high skilled players are too good with them.
Shouldn’t aim be a skill that rewards players who can master it? Those who can’t, still have the option to use axes, maces, two-hand swords, etc.
Either way, with or without auto-lock, the key to fighting a dagger wielding foe is keeping them at distance and the game gives you all the tools you need to do that. It’s just a matter of personal skill. Is it not?
What I mean is I made a good observation last night. A new fellow, somewhat impertinently, asked me to remove the doors on my map room up north. When I said I don’t like to do that on a Public Server, he answered “no problem.”
Ordinarily I’d bristle. Who the heck does he think he is to talk like this?
But in PvP mode, we let things slide. Mobs, expediency, ESL, all conspire. So we let the words slide.
Perhaps that’s why we’re easy about throwing them around, and don’t expect them to hurt people’s feelings. Or at least that’s my take.
It’s an unfinished mechanism, in my opinion. I can very easily hit you on a tangent and then “wrap you up” in four shots. This is a maddening and rage-quit-inducing style, so I’m told. The problem is it isn’t a style, it’s simply “try to intersect while swinging wildly.” Takes about as much skill as throwing a spoiled pineapple with a perfect spiral.
Throwing a spoiled pineapple with a perfect spiral seems like it would take a lot of skill. How much skill does it take to avoid a wildly swinging enemy with daggers? I highly doubt that unskilled dagger players flailing around wildly are taking over the combat meta
Why would you bristle at someone replying “no problem” to your decline of their request? Is that not an acceptable response? What should they have said?
EDIT: now that I think about it. If daggers are considered the meta for PvP combat and everyone is running around with daggers trying to fight each other then I guess it wouldn’t take much skill to lock someone up if both players are attacking each other with daggers. Does dagger vs. dagger combat just come down to whoever lands the first heavy attack? Or am I wrong and the “dagger nerf” side thinks daggers are the meta because they’re more OP than any other weapon class?
I stopped actively playing PvP some time ago. I’m getting older and don’t have the reactions I had when I was young.
But about PvE and PvP, you are wrong. There is no difference between the two. PvP is just PvE against an intelligent enemy. In PvE you learn the battle moves of the mobs, how they ‘telegraph’ their moves. In PvP its faster and you’re dealing with an unpredictable enemy. but even players can be predictable and the best PvP players will be able to predict what their enemy will do and have a way to deal with it quickly and effictively.
In PvP you need to experiment with weapons, game mechanics and techniques to find the ones that are most effective to you. They may differ from other players and you could even invent a new technique that the so-called PvP crew will be quick to adopt when they see how effective it is.
Same thing that goes for PvE goes for PvP. Adapt and learn, experiment and invent, so you shall overcome.
Not that I don’t agree with this, but lag can be a huge factor in this and with poison in the mix… ? They could make certain weapons unusable with lock (they simple upon lock unwield (sheath) and will not unsheath while locked on to a target.
Daggers? Those dual handed weapons that send your character uncontrollably lunging in directions occasionally unexpected, those daggers? I thought one had to be an AI to use those well?!? @dadsOP , come clean, you’re an AI huh!?!
The back flip is nice though. Dmg certainly doesn’t need nerfing!!! Using them requires you to put yourself in the worst possible position imaginable. A disadvantage against every other weapon type in man to man combat - with the most affective counter being the throwing spear, then the pike, then long sword, and finally the short sword only has a slight advantage - puts one in the same vulnerable position but has a deadlier rapid multi-stab.
Both of these things have helped me successfully demonstrate the subjectivity of the topic.
As @AxeIsAnnoying says, there are ways to counter and even mess with dagger people. Mostly, keep distance. This does not change what I think is accurate: daggers need a tune-up.
Sounds reasonable. I’ll defer to the expertise of PVP players here, but I’m curious to see if you guys can reach some kind of consensus about what, exactly, needs to be tuned up, since there seems to be a lot of disagreement there.
Some claim that the daggers are not really that OP as long as we’re not talking about Siptah. Others claim that all daggers have a serious problem. But it seems like the discussion, as a whole, has made a lot of progress from “nerf this damn thing” to where it is now.
I’m gonna shut up now and watch what you guys come up with, but if you don’t mind one small request, can you try to “dumb it down” for us PVE players the way you and @Chaoruk have done in the last few posts? (And since intentions can be tricky to parse from text, I wanna make it clear I’m not being sarcastic, I’m actually grateful that you guys are explaining the problem in terms I can understand.)
Oh, I see, but unless you can successfully demonstrate what is objectively wrong with daggers then how can those who think they’re fine be convinced that they need a tune-up?
As far as I’m aware all weapons handle identically across game types! Daggers are just as inaccurate and uncontrollable in PVP as they are in PVE, is that not true, do weapons act differently in PVP? They certainly haven’t in the PVP servers I’ve been on. And it’s also not like there are no beasts and monsters on PVP servers. I think this is where the ideological split breaks down myself. What happens when you RMB or LMB the weapon is the same in either game type. The only difference is that in PVP, a player is smarter than the AI and can side-step your dagger attack, or roll, and hack on you while your character is in suspended animation… while the AI just stands there face on hacking on you under the same circumstances.
I’m not a PVP pro but I really think people are kinda using the difference for exclusivity sake a bit much. “Only >I< know, because >I< am the PVP player”… Uh-huh… sure…
