The whole topic had 85 replies and 84 likes in these replies as total to all these replies …
You are funny m8
The whole topic had 85 replies and 84 likes in these replies as total to all these replies …
And the ocean isn’t actually blue, so what is your point?
OK so lets do this…again.
1)For those that say ‘In PVP, you should be able to take care of it yourselves and are cowardly/weak if you report’…blah blah blah. Look, I work, I raise my kids, I try to be a good husband…I am not logging into a game about Conan just to demo their crap for 3 hours just so I can actually get to the position of a normal raid. I really don’t care about the machismo BS criticism over it. I’m old and don’t care what you think about me. You build in a way that is against the intent of the ToS, I’ll report you because time is becoming more and more of a precision thing with each passing year. It’s that simple. Deal
The idea of private servers being the solution is just a retreat strategy no different than the Tolkien elves. If officials are abandoned, the console side of things would dry up. Sure there are private servers but to get that rare gem of a good server that people keep saying is around just isn’t statistically viable. The fact is that the game needs both PC and console to continue and push to private would kill console and therefore the game.
Vagueness. Yes all regs have vagueness in them to allow regulators/administrators leeway to actually do their jobs. This is nothing new but that does give a degree of uncertainty and the regulators/companies set these based on what they want to see…do you risk giving some people the unfair advantages and be more lenient or do you enforce and risk enforcing on someone that was within the intent of the ToS? This is the real debate here and I flip flop between the two different aspects daily…sometimes hourly depending on which server I’m scouting.
Build limits. Just stop. Time and time again throughout the what…going on 2 years of enforcement FC has officially said that the amount of foundations is not the issue they are seeing and its not this metric that is getting enforced on. I bet real money that it’s placeables such as lighting, crafting stations, and storage chests that are the real issues here because they are what makes a base a lag beast. It’s not the 10K foundations that is the issue but the 10 furnaces churning out brick or the 20 cauldrons pumping out steelfire/dragon powder or the chest/resource organization or the lighting the tower you just build or a combo of it all. As the game evolves, this gets worse as new stuff gets put in there. I know the minute I put in a transport stone down, i got some loading lag so I adjusted my build to stop that.
@stelagel, bless your so often optimistic soul.
We shouldn’t further seek to divide ourselves in this. We should come together in a consensus if only to talk.
You and others are right in that there is only a very small portion of the community as whole participating on the forums. I agree that this does not mean that just because we do, we should be the ones to influence change if it doesn’t fit into the vision of the company notwithstanding those who have not given their voice.
But, these discussions are a great way to figure out things. Perceptions, opinions and ideals can be presented, debunked, realized and minds changed.
While I would hope Funcom already knew there were issues with the verbiage of their own rules, they have indeed communicated that they’re not optimal, and that they are working on improving them. Maybe, just maybe, if it wasn’t for many of us on the forums coming forward to speak on this, they wouldn’t have said anything or provided this information. Maybe I am dreaming that our voices are being heard. Maybe. But that little tiny tidbit of information re-instilled some of my confidence.
For every time @DeaconElie and I have disagreed, I commend them for circling back to this very important discussion.
Let’s see that optimism that you usually have come back, eh?
Its the combination of everything. Building pieces, storage, thralls, lights, location, something I’m forgetting; all in the mix together to one degree or another hurt performance, for either the client and/or the server. What specific thing breaks the ToS at a base can vary from person to person. Avoid excess. Respect your neighbor. Treat the server as a public place should be treated. Be a good neighbor.
I’m not sure if you missed the post later in that thread where Umborls explained what the comment about official servers really meant, but I’ll reproduce the explanation here:
In other words, official servers are meant to be the “real game”, in the sense that they are how the devs imagine playing the game. They’re not just the “tutorial/noob zone”, they’re what devs envision and optimize for. Everyone is free to tweak and change the game as much as possible on their own servers, in single-player, or in co-op, with or without the help of mods, with or without their own admin rules.
The devs recognize that the number of private servers outstrips the number of official servers by a large margin, but that doesn’t change the purpose of the official servers, which is to experience the multiplayer aspect of the game the way devs envision it.
Again, let’s quote the “shift to private servers” bit here and look at it:
On its face, it almost sounds like they want to get rid of official servers and have people go to private servers, right? But that completely ignores the whole context given in the “why?” section. I’m not going to reproduce that section in its entirety, but here’s what I consider to be the salient part:
That completely changes the meaning of the “shift to private servers” part, doesn’t it? Basically, it says “Many people don’t like our official servers and migrate to privates, which leaves the official servers underpopulated, and playing on a server with only a couple other players is not how we envision the game should be played.”
If anything, that bit confirms that the official servers aren’t a tutorial/noob zone, and are supposed to represent the devs’ vision of this game.
So why do they expect the “shift to private servers” to continue? I can think of a couple of explanations. The more idealistic one is that they understand that mods and settings provide a myriad of ways to play this game, and it’s quite natural that players will seek their own niche in that variety. The more jaded one is that they know official servers just can’t handle the game, due to performance problems and insufficient moderation capacity.
None of that changes the fact that the official servers are the “real game”, however unloved that experience might end up being.
No more than Minecraft or Terraria.
I disagree with the title @Kikigirl !
I don’t disagree with DeaconElie, tho he get it this way, but it’s ok .
Like you said Kiki, my enthusiasm here is over limits!
Deacon once said that my optimism is a healofadrug . I agree.
But take it friendly, as it always comes from me!
We get them tired and it’s obvious! We, all of us, none out of it! We keep pressing, the same issues… They make all their schedules out of this forum Kiki, we are the last to be informed! The last to know!
Because we think that we can boss them!
The voice we have in here it’s been given politely!
We must never forget this and ofcurce be polite to them also!
You have all my support, I am on players side, but not in the rude form of the player, only in the kind! Ask, wish, dream, even suggest, complain and I’ll be there with you always! This is all we can do here, not point them how to do it!
But anyways, I love you all and you know that, nonetheless! All of you here are my friends, my lovely daily habit. But guys we lost ground, we press too much!
A lot things must be better in official servers!
I like the original suggestion that @Ragnaguard did really long ago and he keeps remind it!
People must be warned!
I loved the artistic persistence of @CodeMage to save the “villages” from the rules!
I am in with all the suggestions, always supportive! Because I am a player. I know nothing about coding, programming, etc… All I know is how to play!
To this I am good, not pro, not exceptional, just good! I can’t play on official servers the last month because of my consoles, but make no mistake, this doesn’t mean that I don’t play on official servers! Every week I will play at least 20 hours in official servers, but the most of the game play will be…
Log in again dead…
Go collect my things and in five minutes again crush…
Log in dead again…
This time my thrall and my horse died too…
Go collect my things again…
After 3 hours your fun is long gone, so let’s connect to a private server to relax a bit .
I am a ma… t I know, but I love officials, especially when some days I crush only 2 or 3 times in 3 hours… Tragic I know, but I do patience, there is nothing more I can do for now .
I ran the rules through an analysis for reading level. Maybe you all have a point, its considered a 10th Grade reading level. A little bit above the average reader’s level. They should consider using words with less syllables and less words per sentence to make it more inclusive and understandable.
Asking for clarity hurts noone, and just as you read something a certain way doesnt mean everyone else does.
And quite honestly the aloof in your answers is getting tiresome.
Would you suggest a player go to official servers for the best and most complete experience playing Conan Exiles?
We have read the same thing and come to very different conclusions.
This one, between those threads and explanations of enforcement, sees an admission of a deliberately stripped down experience that is secondary in the minds of those developing the game. Otherwise, it gives the lie to the encouragement to build “massive structures”. Or are all our building competitions to be considered using the game outside of how the devs intended? If the intent has always been to live in narrow spires, why was it only in the time between when the mergers drank half the server base and the coming of the Age of Sorcery that enforcement started?
Also, note that none of the Private servers for console, to this one’s knowledge, are running mods, something about not having mods on console, but we digress.
If the current way officials are run is the vision of the game, it’s a tragic game. One whose potential far outstrips it’s masters’ capabilities and vision.
Introductory and noob zoon were bitter hyperbole. Disingenuous on this one’s part. But it is a deliberately stunted experience. If the way officials are regulated is the way the game is intended to be played, then the intended game is a thing of small merit.
This one is bitter because of the waffling and half measures. They can grow building exclusion zones to better regulate officials, with an admin toggle to disable for privates and single player. Yet when asked for other such options it’s oh no we don’t design with officials in mind and instead leave the burden on players to divine our deliberately vague rules and (what this one imagines is an understaffed and overworked group of) administrators to regulate it.
They declare something such as build massive structures or the game isn’t designed with officials in mind, then spend paragraph after paragraph walking it back and dissembling it.
So perhaps this one has chosen to take them at face value because reading deeper gives the impression of every conniving functionary in some decadent empire that was heel when they appeared in the source material.
Or perhaps reading deeper reveals there is no truth and it’s all just so much smoke and mirrors over a system that, as always, boils down to because the person in authority says so and no other position matters.
Also, this one is cranky because the game has been in a deplorable state since 3.0 on the platform this one plays on with no relief in sight.
This one isn’t amused either.
Which is bitter irony as a game should be amusing.
Can we, all, even agree what this means?
If its a violation of language, banning the person is hiding the problem too right? Mute or ban, both result in you no longer seeing toxic behaviour. Only difference is, one is controlled by the player, one is controlled by Funcom. To me, if people have the ability to deal with issues themselves, they should.
The toxicity in Rust is at levels that will never be possible in Conan. Did you know they added the ability to record voice or music, and for you to spam that through speakers around peoples bases? Imagine logging in to hear nothing but chinese propaganda or Hitler’s speeches. They literally added that toxicity to the game. They also have mute buttons too!
Ive never seen a true breakdown, but Ill agree with you that official PVP players make up a minority. Then why ban for such trivial things? It affects hardly anyone. Right?
Welcome to online gaming…where you meet all kinds of people. Good luck ever getting people to get along.
Yes, but we are getting a bit off course, and for that I do apologize.
Except that the rules, especially when they come to PVP servers are just…so weak. Pathetic? Stupid? BS? You could use almost any word you like. Youve mentioned before about being walled in on PVE servers, and Ill agree that on PVE servers more moderation should be done since there is no other way to deal with it.
PVP? Come on man, blow it up. Funcom dug themselves into the hole of foundation spam when they made farming way too easy, return rates too high, and removed the ability to mass damage buildings/foundations. In EA and the very early days of launch, we didnt see nearly the issues as we do now.
The fact that people can run around now and report things they dont like because they can to get people banned is a major issue. Ask yourself, is there a difference between spam that does nothing but prevent building (like the spider webs around bases) and open maprooms/walkways/bridges? If you say no, well, then thats sad. If you do see a difference, then youll understand why the rules dont make any sense. If the map was the size of one grid with 40/40 players on it, then sure, youd need tight rules. The map is huge, populations on the vast majority of PVP servers are less then 50%. There is plenty of room for all to build and enjoy the game. How is reporting buildings fun? PVP needs different rules then PVE.
But, since Funcom cant find balance in weapons and armor between the two, I highly doubt they would on something like the rules.
Imagine if 10 out of every 50 players felt this way, that the current rules are garbage. Their opinions would be irrelevant too because they differ from your point of view? Remember, I mentioned above that Ive talked to nearly 20 (or 30 I cant remember what I said) people that have played with me and my clan over the last 5 years. Every single one of them laughed at the building rules.
Their opinions on the subject dont matter either? Because its different then yours?
Never claimed to be good at what I do. But I do speak out against things I dont like. Change isnt made by being a Yes-Man. Take any government…change happens when you speak up, not when you nod your head all the time.
Ive said lots, I am bringing it up to show how stupid the rules are. Likely gonna continue on other thread where its relevant too.
Anyways, after this reply Im going to try to keep it back on track, were getting too far from the OP.
No, I wouldn’t. But there’s also no other place I would suggest, either, and that’s despite having played on several private servers and quite a bit of single-player, too.
I think you summed it up rather nicely:
Sadly, yes. That’s exactly how I’ve come to see Conan Exiles.
What I probably should have said is not that the official servers are how we’re meant to play the game, but that they’re supposed to be how we’re meant to play the game. Unfortunately, the official servers are where the metaphorical rubber of the devs’ vision meets the proverbial road of the shіtty G-Portal server specs.
Which means that the whole “survive, build, dominate” turns into “survive the glitches, build sparingly, dominate the latest exploits”, at least on PVP. On PVE(-C), there’s no “dominate” to speak of at all, but that’s a different can of worms.
That said, there’s some stuff in your post that makes me wonder whether I’m failing to understand you, or we just think too differently. For example:
Uh, yes and no. I did say that the purpose of the official servers is to experience the multiplayer aspect of the game the way devs envision it.
The building competitions are quite clearly meant to be an a showcase of individual artistic expression. There’s always the possibility that I’m missing something, but I honestly can’t see how the devs would even imagine a multiplayer experience where you have a finite map and the encouragement for an unbounded number of players to build without any limits, whether self-imposed or enforced through moderation.
Indeed, I have a feeling anyone here would be hard-pressed to find a high-pop PVE(-C) server that never wipes, and doesn’t limit either the population or how much land you can claim.
The enforcement of the rules started before the mergers. The “reporting is the new meta” trope predates mergers considerably.
This is the second time you’ve asserted that in your reply. At the risk of offending people at Funcom, which I regret, I would like to invoke a modified phrasing of Hanlon’s razor: “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence”. And I sincerely apologize for the harshness of that last word, but it was the mildest I could find to describe the continued mishandling of the game. Perhaps someone with better dominion of English could find an even nicer word.
I understand the bitterness you mention elsewhere in your post – I’m also bitter, although for different reasons – but I would argue that choosing to take them at face value shouldn’t be reserved only for posts that confirm what your bitterness already led you to believe
I feel like you’re deliberately ignoring the explanation Umborls provided for that first post you quoted, because that explanation doesn’t fit into what you believe and you would rather think they’re deliberately stunting the official experience rather than just … blundering around.
If only this was the case but once again it would be to much extra work on their end. It was a good idea to implement some rules but the follow through is very poor on funcoms part. I’ve just never played or heard of a game that will ban players for such things after spending money on the game. It’s pretty sad tbh
It would not be hard at all for different rules on different server types. Its literally a few lines of text on the forum pages. Type a big ole “PVP” tag on one “PVE” on the other. Moderation is just as simple since you have to indicate the server type when filling out a report. The only thing extra would be the person acting on the reports would have to be aware of the different types of rules for each server…which in my mind would be the same as they currently are for PVE, but removal of some for PVP.
Sigh, another TOS thread…
I am pretty certain there was a more explicit post from Mayra saying there would be further clarification in the future, but I’m either misremembering (doubt it) or it’s been scrubbed. It seems like they are developing a more robust rule set, though how transparent they will be with it, who knows. I hope they write them with an understanding of WHY players do what they do and not just the WHAT, but on this particular subject I am admittedly jaded.
I am confused about this new-ish argument of “reporting is the new meta”. Is the argument:
- FC is rightfully banning players, but the rules are out of touch with player habits?
- FC is purposely/ignorantly pushing reports and banning people irrespective of guilt?
Because we have had those arguments ad nauseam. “Reporting is the new meta” just reads as whining to me.
I have to disagree with you here. The point of you playing on a PVP server is what exactly? To fight other players or to raid them?
If its merely fighting, PVE/C offers just that.
If its raiding…I mean, raiding has lost nearly all value now. Farming at 4x rates means in a couple hours you have all you ever need. Rare thralls? Ha, they dont exist anymore. Legendary weapons? Siptah weapons and new crafted ones make them near useless wall hangers. Are you raiding a base so that you dont have to farm stuff yourself?
Or does that mean the point of raiding is just to blow some stuff up and see what you can get? Does that mean that just simply blowing up anything could accomplish the same feeling? Would it then matter if it was a wheel base, map room, bridge, base, outpost or teleportation room?
All those things I listed are merely to cause grief to other players - but hey, thats part of the game on PVP.
Hence the discussion here, because what you think may be a violation, maybe to others its not. Heck each Funcom employee would likely have a different opinion on the matter too. After seeing screenshots of stuff that is resulted in people getting banned, you could report many many bases on PVP servers because it may be against the rules. In my ban, people here tried to say I was preventing others from building (which is also on the message I get when I try to log in), so I could report your base because its preventing me from building. Makes sense right?
Yup, it is for everyone. If you dont find enjoyment in gaming or in PVP anymore because people build too much or play too much for your liking, maybe there is other ways to enjoy time. Of course you can ignore this too, Im not telling you what to do, but dont sh*t on people who can play more often then you can. No point in punishing those that have more free time because you have limited time to play.
What, specifically, would be a PVE rule and not a PVP rule and vice versa?
I just don’t see how the two are any different outside of players’ expectations. Using the building system to harass other players, regardless of game type is still harassing players. I fail to understand why the PVP player needs to exploit the build system.
As for the actual intent of the developers in how interactions of players should go. I have yet to hear how any of types of play should be from anyone at FC. Truth be told, I think they developed this game in a bubble and threw it over three fences of online play styles just to see if it would stick. Change my mind.
No, it’s removing the problem. Unless you consider that undergoing surgery to remove cancer is “hiding the problem”. Then yeah, I completely agree.
I don’t care about people getting along. I just don’t want to play with people who think it’s okay to yell the n-word or build swastikas. You can try as hard as you want to make it more complicated, but it’s really as simple as that. And Funcom also thinks it’s as simple as that. Feel free to put it to test any time you want on the official servers where there are players like me
When it comes to whether the rules should be different for PVP, I don’t have a horse in that race, so I’m reluctant to offer my opinion. Personally, I would tend to agree with @erjoh about the desirability of cleaning up other people’s turds just because you own a broom, but like I said, I’ll leave that to PVP players.
Yes, there is. And even Funcom recognizes that difference:
Unfortunately, the game doesn’t yet give us tools to treat the “public infrastructure” builds differently. I hope they’ll add that, but until that happens, anyone who builds public infrastracture assumes the risk of getting reported.
I don’t think that’s different in PVP, by the way. I’m convinced that if you play on a PVE(-C) server and get reported for a bridge you’re likely to be targeted by admin action, because bridges are specifically called out in the clarification post about land claim abuse. Hell, I wouldn’t even bet against being admin-wiped for a public map room if there are enough reports against you, because that would be a pretty good signal that the community on the server doesn’t consider your public map room to be a net good.
And yeah, I know, people will report that stuff on PVP servers with the express intent of getting you banned, rather than because they’re genuinely annoyed by your stuff. I already said I don’t dispute that reporting-to-win exists. But if you build stuff that breaks the rules, you don’t get to complain about the “reporting meta”. You do get to complain about the rules, but there we run into another problem:
No, their opinions on whether the rules should change are not relevant to this topic. Mine isn’t, either, but I’m not the one pushing it as something this discussion is about.
The discussion was supposed to be about whether the rules are vague, whether people are abusing the vagueness of the rules, whether people are abusing the reporting system, stuff like that. “But I don’t like the rules” is a very different topic.
FWIW, I think that “should the rules change” is a more interesting topic than yet another iteration on “reporting is the new meta because the rules are vague”. The former could lead to some interesting discussion, the latter is frankly nauseating at this point.