What I’m saying is there is a clear difference in reports. What do you think people report for on pvp? What do you think their intent is? The vast majority of bans I’ve seen/ heard on pvp servers always have that same cop out taste of can’t beat them report them.
Sure everyone is different some are honest and some are not. They put the rule of false reports in the tos for a reason. My guess is because they couldn’t actually control the issue of false reports so they try a scare tactic. Can they actually distinguish between a legit report and a “false report”? Are they acknowledging that they have made very questionable decisions when it comes to the tos? The fact that even exists is a clear indication of weaponized system.
What works wonders for pve/c does not work whatsoever on pvp. Landclaim should be looked at as a whole because that is the only legitimate report 9/10. Other than that all the extra effort on pvp servers should go straight towards hackers because they still get away with playing while others who play legit get punished.
You got more fight in me on this subject so that’s it for me. GG WP
Condescension won’t hide the fact that you insist that speech and expression shouldn’t be covered by the TOS. I don’t care about your slippery slope fallacies, your Sorites paradox fallacies, or any other of the sophistries that you hold dear when discussing that topic.
All I care about is that you think there shouldn’t be any rules to cover that, which means that people should be free to yell the n-word and other shіt like that. Keep weaseling around as much as you want, and I’ll always point that out and let people decide if they agree that we should share servers with people who do that or not.
No, the problem of being on the same server with a chucklefuсk like that would remain.
Sure. And people who do what you’re defending can go somewhere else. I have no qualms about saying that. We’re not talking about anything as lofty as the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution. We’re talking about a bunch of servers provided by a private company for people to play a video game on those servers. If that company decrees that people who like building swastikas and yelling the n-word can go fuсk off somewhere else, I’m behind that decree 100%.
Was that simple enough English for you?
Funny how that hasn’t come up in your discussion about whether anyone would willingly and knowingly break the rules, not until now. I don’t often agree with @Taemien, but he’s 100% right on this one: you keep playing the victim, and then you try to make it look like you didn’t do that.
Sure, you build the real estate years before the TOS made it against the rules. And then they published the TOS, and gave everyone time to fix their stuff. Anyone who didn’t fix their stuff broke the rules willingly and knowingly. Such as, you know, someone who built a bridge and left it there and then got banned for it.
I already said: to beat their opponents by taking advantage of the fact that those opponents don’t want to adapt to the rules.
I’m not denying that the reporting is used intentionally to beat other players. I’m saying that most people are disingenuous when they discuss that reporting meta. They put all of the responsibility on Funcom, and none on their own playstyle. I’ve already said what I think Funcom is doing wrong. I’m pointing out what players are doing wrong and are unwilling to change.
Like I already told @Nemisis: it’s perfectly possible to argue about something real in bad faith. The report-to-win tactics are real, but way too many people are full of shіt when discussing it. Even if Funcom clarifies the rules and starts communicating better, a sizable portion of those people will still paint themselves as victims and come crying here.
The only way to avoid that would be for Funcom to have a public repository where you can see every single one of their admin actions, with a complete report detailing all the evidence received and gathered during their investigation. That way when someone comes here and says “I got banned unfairly”, people can look it up and call them out on their bullshіt. I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t see a lot of “I got banned unfairly” if we could answer with “this you?” and a photo of their claim spam.
But we all know they’re not gonna do that, and I don’t blame them. Aside from any PR considerations, it’s too costly a measure just to cater to malcontents.
And before there are any misunderstandings, I’m not saying you are one of those people. I don’t know what your case is. If we ever discussed it, I don’t remember. I’m just saying that you’re overlooking those people and their numbers are high enough to matter a lot.
It’s a bluff, and a dumb one at that. I apologize if anyone at Funcom got offended that I said this, but there’s absolutely no way they can enforce the consequences for false reporting as long as the reporting isn’t done in-game and through the server.
As long as the server isn’t involved in the report, there is no way to authenticate the user making the report, so anyone can easily impersonate anyone else when submitting a report. And that, in turn, can lead to the abuse of the system by intentionally submitting false reports while impersonating someone you want to get banned.
So yeah, that’s a “scare tactic” that won’t work at all.
As to why they added that, it doesn’t take much to figure that one out. For one thing, you get auto-closed tickets saying that they didn’t get to review your ticket because they’re dealing with a high volume of reports. For another, you get Funcom staff posting about how many players don’t include even the most basic info in their reports. You put those together, and it’s not hard to imagine they can conclude on their own that some of those reports are shots in the dark by people who just want someone banned.
Sure, and have you ever stopped to wonder whether that has anything to do with the players? Who do you think invented claim spam as a defense strategy? Who abused one of the advanced building techniques to such a degree that it got removed from the game?
No, I’m suggesting that Funcom has only one part of the responsibility for these problems. I’m saying that even if Funcom fixed a bunch of things on their end, the problem would persist. Why? Because there will always be players who don’t adapt to the rules and then come here to complain about the system.
I’ve been saying, loudly and openly, what I think Funcom is doing wrong, and how I think they should fix it. I’ve already said it in this thread, too.
And I’ve also said that reporting-to-win is a real strategy employed on PVP servers. It’s not made up. But it’s not going to go away even if Funcom fixes what they’re doing wrong.
They haven’t. And I really doubt they will do that in one of these threads. If they’re working on it, they’ll announce the changes when they’re ready to implement them, regardless of how many threads like this one pop up on the forums. Not that I have high hopes for a good solution. They’ve pretty much frittered away most of the trust I had in them.
We already had a method of controlling that ourselves. It proved too difficult for people. Have you ever played Rust?
And youd be free to play the game against them (if its a pvp or conflict server) without hearing things that bother you.
Yup, and your not wrong. Where I shake my head is when people have the ability to deal with things themselves, but simply cant. Then they run to Funcom.
No. I aint trying to get sympathy or anything like that. Dont care that much. Im highlighting my story because all too often, we see people bashing those that got banned then came to the forums to explain, or to look for explanations. Prime example, having Umborls come to the forums and say that people dont get 30 day bans for building. Sucks when even Funcom is wrong. Thats why people want the interactions from Funcom itself on topics like this, becuase we hear one thing, see another, and get 100 interpretations on the forums. Topics and threads like this will continue until everything makes sense to people.
Hence why I keep saying its laughable. Building a bridge on a server with 4 people is such a horrible violation. So horrible, its worth a longer suspension then exploiters.
No, not at all. He is suggesting that indeed certain malicious people are intentionally abusing the report system trying to get their PvP enemies banned as a strategy… he was never denying that, however he’s also suggesting that in a large number of cases where that tactic succeeds… the person reported also wasn’t entirely “innocent” and a lot of those bans were well deserved… essentially the “shot in the dark” actually hitting a target…
They got reported out of spite, but Funcom went to investigate and actually FOUND something wrong and that was the reason for the ban and not just the empty report from their enemy, but then the people who show up and complain about being “unfairly banned” on the forums, always neglect to include the part where they did possess builds / behavior not in line with the ToS.
He’s also suggesting that there ARE cases where Funcom does take admin action against people seemingly unfairly or in a seemingly unreasonable manner, but the number of those are more limited than people are lead to believe.
On top of that the ones who DID get banned justly are just too loud and using these other unfortunate cases to propel their own agenda so often the “real victims” get lost in the noise.
And while Funcom should definitely clean up their act when it comes to providing feedback on the reason for the bans, it would be also nice if people owned up to their own and not just play the innocent victim on the forums - though Codemage is in doubt that this will happen due to the nature of some people
At least that’s what I got from what he said, I think that’s a simple enough translation for the ones who might have missed that
EDIT 2: Just wanted to make clear this is a reply to @Nemisis, not to @Xevyr. The forum isn’t showing that, for some reason.
Right, let’s address a few points that are actually worth discussing in your reply.
Not “can’t”, “won’t”. I’m not getting through to you. I don’t want to play with people like that. They can take their filth to whatever swampy corner of Internet will have them.
Now, for the rest of your “arguments”. You remember what we’re talking about in this thread, right? We’re talking about whether the rules are vague and need clarification. Or at least, that’s where we started. Then it expanded to whether the system is flawed and in what way.
You jumped pretty early and tried to move the goalposts right away. You’re not talking about whether the system is flawed or whether the rules are vague. You’re talking about how you disagree with the rules. And there’s a simple and easy answer to any argument like that.
“You can mute people who say offensive stuff.” Doesn’t matter, broke the rules.
“I built my bridge before there were rules.” Doesn’t matter, broke the rules.
“There were only 4 players on the server where I built a bridge.” Doesn’t matter, broke the rules.
“I got banned longer than an exploiter.” Doesn’t matter, broke the rules.
“@Umborls was wrong about the duration of bans they hand out for claim abuse.” Doesn’t matter, broke the rules.
“The rules are bullshіt.” Doesn’t matter, broke the rules.
In short: whether you like the rules or not is not relevant to this topic. In fact, I would say that people who argue the way you do are as much of a problem as Funcom’s bad communication about the rules.
Those poor players you say get bashed when they come here to complain about their bans? They get “bashed” because we’re deeply suspicious of those complaints, thanks to dishonesty of certain people here. And the “bashing” you’re talking about is, more often than not, the questioning of the veracity of their claims, followed by pointing out what they probably (or sometimes definitely) did wrong.
The whole “I’m not complaining, I’m just bringing my story up” is the same flavor of dishonest discourse as “I’m not accusing anyone, I’m just asking questions”.
No. This one does not like them.
This one despises them. This one finds them less than useful in keeping servers vibrant and uncluttered. This one finds no joy in seeing their enemy laid low by Crom. That was this one’s kill. This one wanted to be the one to demolish their base, with an avatar made in their own altar, drop all their named crafters, eldarium, and gunpowder in the sea and then dance naked except for a hyena skull over the shattered remnant of their efforts so when they do get back from the spawn point, they are greeted by a very setting appropriate taunt.
There is no pleasure (for this one) in seeing someone report meta removed.
However, this one tries to confine their expectations to something at least adjacent reality.
This one can go get the forum post where they clarified this if you would like?
Officials being a noob/starter zone for playerbase is nothing but a bs private servers spewed to elevate themselves above official servers players.
Official servers represent the whole game and how it’s played in devs vision.
Then they simply provide you tools to adjust those settings to your liking be it single player or private server. At that point you change devs set formula to something you’d like and ceases to be the original CE experience.
One day devs may say “No more mods support” and then what? “CE pro” palyers will cease to exist? What about console players (allegedly the biggest part of CE community)? Just a bunch of noobs stuck in a noob zone of the game? I’m sure some horse genitalia attachments and all kinds of p*rnhubsque mods elevate some players experience but I doubt those are “pro league” of CE community.
You can look at the “shift to private servers” portion if you want the meat of it. But the whole thing as well is worth a read.
That, as well as the quoted text above from the land claim abuse thread (give the whole thread a look) show what word from on high is.
Edit: Also, this one plays primarily on a PlayStation.
No need to remind this one that Funcom doesn’t give the value of used toilette paper for us (console players). Despite noting we were (would be surprised if it is still true) a majority of customers.
There was even an infamous lie when a Funcom rep on a stream some years ago said they played on console and then responded to QoL requests with “there’s a mod for that”.
Well seems like I’m wrong. This game is indeed not a survival game anymore and is nothing but a platform for erp and rp servers.
I rest my case then.
But I sure hope Funcom will find a way to provide sexiles experience to console folks. Tt seems like they’re still in stone age of community.
It really doesn’t In fact I’m pretty sure the devs / staff who do play the game probably don’t do it on those servers either.
They merely rented some servers so players have a place to try multiplayer…
The settings are obviously a different story, I agree with that part, that the default configuration is what they balanced the game around and the private servers that are altering these by significant margins probably aren’t reflecting the “devs formula” as you put it.
However in this case @LostBrythunian and the Funcom staff in those quoted posts weren’t referring to the alteration of settings, but rather the fact that the game is capable of more than what they allow for on official servers or even what these servers are capable of supporting.
The game was NOT developed specifically for official servers, official servers are more like the “free community transportation bus” and that’s not some advert that private servers created… it’s simply how it is and actually Funcom created that situation by making sure their servers are so bad that even the lower quality private servers easily outpace them. Obviously it would be nice if that changed.
That day will never come, I can guarantee you that In fact the other scenario is way more likely whereby the modders get fed up with certain things and put some pressure on Funcom
Allegedly? I’m not sure, but I think the PC private server RP community is still larger than all console communities combined.
Doubt it will never come. From what I see in steam workshop alone majority of CE mods provide more content and often better quality for free.
Be it armor, weapons or building pieces.
At some point some suit in upper management of Funcom will learn about it and will pull the plug on mod support.
That may be so, but that content didn’t appear out of the blue They actually have devs devoted to constantly improving the ability to mod the game even further - so it’s not an accident and it’s not something their upper management is unaware of since they’re actively working on it.
In fact quite a lot of their new features are often based on the success of similar mods and generally the people who use mods also tend to buy their DLCs and shop content alongside the free mods so there’s not really a competition between the two. Dropping mod support would be an absolute nightmare for the company at this point.
In any case I’m not sure on the player stats as we have no clear source so everybody is just speculating, would be nice if they shared their statistics (Funcom obviously knows the amount of players on each platform - even singleplayer now since online services are required)
I did not want to be involved PVP-main topics, but that made me chuckle. In no sane world the PVP is represented as how the game should be played.
I did not play CE official particularly, but I’ve played a pretty amount of games online.
PVPs are the wild west of the game. And just by logical thinking: why is the need of a TOS if the devs imagined the game as PVPers play it? If the game would be designed to be represented by PVP, there wouldn’t be rules.
Yeah the “build,…” slogan is a bit misleading, but can be achieved by common sense. Build, but not in a
d beep! head way.
If the devs’ dream is to have the servers full of stupid spiderwebs, they wouldn’t ban people for doing so.
So no, official PVP does NOT represent the game as the devs imagined. You are not the center of the world. Not even the center of the game.
Did not inclue hackers because those are a different type of people (creatures I would say - I will NEVER figure out why is it a good feeling to f**k others’ fun up with cheats. No-lifers I guess?).
Edit: @Xevyr did not want to reply to you, but I copied the quote from your post, sorry.
Yes it didn’t appear out of blue but previously they were selling content in bulk, now it’s a single armor style or a few weapons for the price of a cultural pack.
This alone indicates quite a change in their mindset about monetization so I won’t be surprised if they will try to dive into modding community. Be it removal of support or the creation of their analog to Bethesda’s Creation club.
Yes, actual stats from devs will provide a clearer picture for everyone. Who knows maybe the majority of the player base sits in their SP minecraft style and those Official server’s issues are the smallest part of the community…hence the lack of action from the devs.
But this does raise a question.
If PVE, PVE-C, and PVP are so different, why there are no server-type-specific rules for each style of play?
Some rules may work on PVE and PVE-C but they won’t work on PVP.
Precisely why they wouldn’t do anything about it. The majority of the “I’ll buy EVERYTHING, no matter what it is” crowd are in fact those very RP people who play mainly on modded servers - as such messing with that would come with a very significant financial loss for the company. At least that’s what it seems like with the information I’m aware of.
Here’s a random fresh example, just now there was a very overpriced placeable food pack in the Bazaar A LOT of people bought that despite the big price… now who do you think bought those? was it the RP crowd or the ones playing on official PvP that wanted to put some food on their tables? And I guarantee that a vast majority of people who now have that food on their table are also running several QoL / feature mods or stuff like Emberlight which includes farming and various serving plates with food and drinks that compliment these new Funcom assets.
This actually isn’t a PvP topic, but a general one, we just took some side-tracking on the topic of bans to PvP “report meta” because it’s a thing, but otherwise the OP plays on PvE servers for example and the issue of ToS clarification - or Zendesk feedback is general across all official servers even if the PvP ones do try to abuse the system more often.
It’s a request by many, but I am sure that would be a LOT of work and time.
No doubt, it would worth it. I always bring it up, because it annoys the hell out of me: no pause, 10s respawn, disconnecting from something in offline single player.
So many problems it would solve, but I think CE2 in UE5 will come out sooner than this separation. ( )