Good day Exiles!
After the Mounts stream we witnessed on the 21 Nov I could not help but notice the 3d models for our coming horsies look a bit strange. I have seen a couple of comments here and there about how supa THICK our steeds look and I do agree.
After some googling on horse anatomy I found that the closest type of horse the CE mounts seems to resemble are called the Clydesdale horses.
Now, I am in no way well versed in anything horse except seeing them irl at a friends farm/ranch.
But if you compare some pictures we can see that there are some problems in the anatomy of the model by Funcom. Specifically the hind legs being very short, which makes the animal’s back seem to slope downwards. Here is a comparison…
I am not trying to be mean or disrespectful towards FC or the hard work they put in to bring us this feature.
Please Funcom, make our mighty barbarian mounts look the part!
I agree there are some atonomy inaccuracies like the long neck, the way the head is constantly raised and the sloping you mentioned, but I think they have aleady tailored the horse armors to this model as well as made animations, so to change these things at this point I think would require too much work.
I play/stream with a fairly high FOV, which might be why some of the proportions look a little wonky. I reset the FOV and took a screenshot using the same build we used on stream.
YEAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!
Thanks Jens! I must admit that looking at literally everything else that is modeled in game it was difficult to grasp how Funcom’s excellent art and modeling team could miss that.
I am very relieved. And thank you so much for posting this.
Now, where do we stand on saddle bags for the mounts…
Not just that, the forum seems to sorta morph some of the screenshots I took (and refreshing the page will restore it to the size its suppose to be). I think it’s related to the fact I took a non standard sized screenshot and did a box capture instead. I’ll be working on improving that technique next dev stream.
Anyhoo, so could be a combination of your FOV and my wonky screen captures. Thanks for the screenie for extra clarification
That was my main complaint as well @Barbiedoll, but Jens_Erik explained it was merely his field of view that made it look so weird. His shared screenshot in post 4 makes it look much more natural don’t you think?
So I spotted the models myself and I actually have a background in equine science (yeah for wasted college years :D) but yeah… the conformation is all off and using the excuse of it’s this type of breed is a pile of bull.
Descended from the Iberian horses of Spain and Portugal and was identified as a talented war horse as early as 450 BCE. Most war horses if you’re going to use that as a term of why the model is bulky would be wrong, war horses such as what was known as the Destrier (more a type not a breed) wasn’t built like a Clyesdale or Shire as they would have been to big and bulky to maneuver in the frenzy of battle. Warhorses (other than drum carriers) would have more resembled the Andalusian, Friesian or even the Irish Draught.
Secondly and more the point that bothers me the most is the huge overlook in conformation…
There are simple lines we can follow when looking at a horses conformation that will not only make more sense but will look more realistic when viewing in game.
The fact the quarters look lower than the withers is just wrong.
Not quite sure what’s going on with the hind legs, should be able to draw a straight line from the point of buttock to the hock and down the full canon bone to the proximal sesamoid when the horse is standing square as in the image above.
The neck is just so bad I would have shot whoever was training this horse to build up so much muscle on the lower neck… example…
A horse at rest does not stand with it’s head struck up in the air, they only do then when alert, the fight or flee response, or it’s a stallion smelling a mare.
Not hard to google correct horse conformation Funcom!
Now don’t get me wrong it thrills me we’re getting horses but I just wish games would look into simple things before making a lazy throw together and just says that’ll do.
Thank you very much for the educated “rant” I appreciate it dearly. I was hoping someone with a thorough understanding in all things equine could actually provide some feedback.
Even though we did get confirmation from our community guy Jens_Erik about the warped view of the hind legs and back arch that to my untrained eye looks much better now than on the stream, there are still some things, even to a laymen like me, that needs some work.
The neck of our trusty steed like you pointed out was and is my second point of discussion.
But according to you there are still some work that needs doing with the hind legs.
The history you provided about war horses are interesting to say the least but lets just say this is a Hyborian war horse and have the same agility and dexterity as the Iberian horses, its a game after all.
Reason being is I don’t think they will do such drastic changes at this point and a barbarian war horse sounds like it should look strong and sturdy instead of accurate. So that might just be the design decision to fit the world of Conan. Or that’s just my take
Now, if I may, would you mind giving some pointers as to what could be done for example: “move the hind legs backward so the hooves are in line with the tail’s start from the rear instead of the middle of the hind leg” or something.
I think the more concrete constructive solutions we as the community can provide the greater the chances are of getting them in game.
Is it possible that you all forget that the Hyborian Age is supposed to be way before our own Stone Age? Why should horses from that time look like our modern horses?
For the same reason: Why do a lot of the animals in the game look like we know them today?
The Hyborian Age is supposed to be before the last Ice Age. Stone Age was well underway even before that. First stone tools that have been found by archaeologists date back ~125,000 years. Neanderthals pre-dated Howard’s Atlantis (depending on source - his essay The Hyborian Age gives different timelines than some Conan stories because he hadn’t finalized his canonical world history back then).
Do horses living in the exiles lands have to be warhorses? I don’t think thats particulary important here.
No offense, in my opinion the model is just very poorly done overall. It doesn’t fit in size, movement and proportions. Now bad horsemodels are really common in videogames. Witcher 3 has also not so well done horse models if you take a closer look at them. The Elder Scrolls Online did also a not-so-good job on the horse mounts. So nothing special what Funcom did here.
The one thing that confuses me is that CE has a very good horse model in the game (the one you see as ghosts). Why was it not used? The textures on the AoC horses are also much better.
I get what you tried to say, even though it may have been exaggerated a wee little bit
I think the best fantasy creatures should have believable aspects drawing from what we have today combined with the cool fantasy aspects to make them that more immersive.
So with that in mind I would still like if FC could lower the head a bit for a more natural stance, but the bulky build I like even though it is inaccurate as IrishRaven pointed out with his detailed war horse explanation.
I just wanna look mean AF, swinging my axe and charging into the fray!
Considering also that at least on some continents, or even hemispheres, there have been die-offs of the Eohippus offspring. As you know, it has only been really recently that horses were reintroduced to the Americas. Some very civilian indigenous people, specifically Mounds people from during the Cahokia Reformation/Unification, call this phase the Equine Rebirth, roughly transliterated.
There are dozens of phenotypic crossroads that govern a fetlock, or the withers, alone. In one family of Morgans that I tended to, again and again we had a strong chance to go Founder. In other words, what could have been excellent breedstock is besmirched by Laminitis, in which case this line should by necessity cease. That’s how breeding works, in the real world. The phenotypes on display, including a taffy neck and hunkered hind, would be considered well outside of conformation.
That is very interesting. I always thought, the andalusian came from arabic and berberic horses. So i checked with wikipedia…
But now i ask myself, how tall were these 450 BCE warhorses? They must have been smaller than modern andalusians, or maybe not?
EDIT: Ok, now i read more and thought about… They must have been smaller! LOL …i am very interested in military history and history in general.
Also, dear FUNCOM, i respect your great work, but horses are magnificent beasts …so we are picky!
@Muelee From historical texts we have they stood around 15hh to 15.2hh so actually would have been quite similar in height
@Starwalker
Is it possible that you all forget that the Hyborian Age is supposed to be way before our own Stone Age? Why should horses from that time look like our modern horses?
So the hind legs issue I could use and image for a ref that may help.
So we commonly use the words “Standing Square” when dealing with a horses conformation which is weight on all fours standing with both hooves parallel with each other like in the image below.
This is the best way to view the horse as you can get a clear view of the hind quarters, withers, shoulder slope, general leg and hoof shape. If we were to view it from the side you can see again from the image below a line that can be used to look at the proper leg placement and angle.
However due to not being able to get a really good photo as an example I’ve had to add in a little arrow to show that this joint (fetlock) should actually be back a little more.
As for the neck… it really needs some serious work, would be a lot more natural if it wasn’t strung as high and also toned down the sternocephalicus muscle (the huge bulging muscle under the neck).
At the end of the wikipedia article about the Andalusian horse i found this: The dramatic appearance of the Andalusian horse, with its arched neck, muscular build and energetic gaits, has made it a popular breed to use in film, particularly in historical and fantasy epics.
Check out the Friesian
And yeah brilliant horses to train, very much always want to please, smart, brave and a lot of them really enjoy the interactions
I appreciate it dearly. I was hoping someone with a thorough understanding in all things equine could actually provide some feedback.
