Then do like I do, play on a server that allows for your playstyle. But at the end of the day, active players come first. If you’re so inactive you can’t be bothered to login for a few hours a week, you’re no longer a customer. But just taking up space.
That doesn’t really work for purges, so if people are doing it, they are wasting time. Purge decay happens whether you’re online or not.
But in any case doing such an action is an exploit, and easy to see. Got a couple 40/40 servers, check out who is bypassing the afk check (there is one, it does work), and ban them for 7 days. They lose their buildings
Is that new? I’ve never left my computer on all night, but the people who told me they did this are people whose word I trust, and they said it worked for them
On the one hand, if we ended up in a hypothetical scenario where we have 40/40 servers hogged by refreshers, those refreshers should definitely get slapped with a ban.
On the other hand, the last thing we need is more changes that create rule-related drama. I understand when people are unhappy because they got banned and they’re not quite sure why, but a large percentage of current complaints comes from people who know what they did and I’m freaking sick of that.
So yeah, I agree with you when it comes to this hypothetical, but would rather have a better solution that avoids it.
And for about 3 years out of those 4, the average population was 0. The server was dead. Im not holding anything back from anyone…since it can just be blown up by someone if they choose to.
Or, if it bothered someone so badly that someone is built in a specific place…you could find a server where someone isnt built in the place you wish to build in. Unless you think that that idea is wrong, because its wrong for me to hoard a specific spot for a period of time.
But then doesnt that make you entitled when you go onto an old dead server and want someone to move or quit, or have repercussions because YOU want a spot that someone else has?
The map is huge, and there is a nearly unlimited space to build. Why do you need precisely where someone else is built?
I really hope not to turn this into a 100 reply back and forth again (lol), but as someone who plays on officials…
… I just 100% disagree with banning people because they arent as active as some people want them to be. If youre talking about doing this on a private server - by all means, write the rules and enforce as you see fit. Nowhere on the official rules does it say people cant log in and refresh builds. Some people might take a couple weeks off as a break, and some might take a couple months off. Doesnt mean they should lose all their stuff because someone doesnt like the idea of refreshing bases.
And there is also nothing people can do to convince other players they are not entitled to build in a specific spot thats been taken. This depends on the type of server (obviously on a PVP server you can wipe it out, and PVE orPVE/C you cant) but as fast as you can say a person isnt entitled to a spot for as long as they want, the next person can say ‘well that spot is taken, build somewhere else or find a server where no one is built in that spot’, right?
Which is why a good upkeep system would allow you to take a couple of weeks or a couple of months, but definitely not a couple of years. Farm up for your break, then relax and enjoy it. After that, either farm up for another break, or give the space back.
Let’s not straw-man things… again.
It’s not about being entitled to building in a specific spot and it never has been. It’s about denying the use of a finite, shared resource without actually using it yourself.
Similar to your argument about “blocking resources”, it’s not about any specific spot, it’s about how this behavior adds up. I’ll sit on one spot, you’ll sit on another, NavyLily will sit on a third on, and so on, and so on, until the server is a ghost town: full of buildings, devoid of life.
“Hogging finite resources indefinitely is not sustainable” is only controversial if your preferred philosophy is “FYGM”.
Keep in mind, Im talking about people logging in to refresh bases. And yet refreshing your base isnt hacking or exploiting. Are perhaps referring to a macro meant to keep your toon from getting auto kicked if afk?
That I could agree on, I dont think people should be using macros in games. But I dont think its ban worthy simply because I dont like it. If Funcom thinks macros are an exploit, its a few simple keystrokes to add “no marcos” in the rules. They would then need to tell people not to jam their keys down in such a way to make your toon walk forever until you die of thirst in your base, because you can do that without a macro.
Sure, if you take years off, then the question arises of why you are keeping your stuff. I cant speak as to why someone would…but hey, to each their own. Myself, I do play off and on again and I like my base, my location and what used to be my quiet corner of a dead server. If a server has no population, it aint hurting anyone to keep my base going over time.
So in your opinion, if a person isnt active (now we need to define active) they arent entitled to a spot because they arent online enough for your liking. So that person that has been playing off and on is now in the wrong because some new player came along and wants to build in the exact same spot someone else already has a base in?
Quoted from numerous people, including yourself “Funcom has thousands of servers”. At this point we should also make sure were talking the same game type (PVP or PVE) because that matters too. If it happens on a PVP server, you have two options - blow it up and take the spot, go to a different server, although I havent seen anyone on a pvp server rage or report anyone for building in a spot that they wish to build. Its also can be as simple as building elsewhere. If were talking about PVE…I cant say for certain peoples attitudes, but it almost can boil down the same - find a different place to build, or find a different server.
Again, what you may see as a player acting entitled because they are built in a spot, and logging in to refresh, thinking they are denying a “free and shared resource” to other players…
…the next person sees that new player demanding bannable action against someone whose built in a location because they think they are entitled to want whatever they want? “Free and shared resources” also means not going in and pouting because you cant build in that ONE particular spot.
Dead serious question for a PVE server - whats wrong with building in a different spot instead of where someone else is? How does someones base location matter given that doesnt affect your PVE gameplay?
Sooooo…then a new person should just report a person refreshing their base because they cant build in that same spot? “Since your not online enough for my liking I want you banned so I can have the spot becuase Funcom says we have to share in the rules”? I just disagree.
If a server is choked with unused builds that belong to serial refreshers, then maybe that’s one of the reasons for its low population?
Or you could stop ignoring the parts of my reply that you don’t like and pretend I didn’t write them. I explained this has nothing to do with the “exact same spot” straw man you’re so fond of.
False equivalence. “Funcom has more than a thousand servers” is very relevant when discussing whether Funcom is capable of having a dedicated admin for each of them. It becomes much less relevant when you’re talking about the experience of having to scroll down a thousand servers to find one that isn’t choked by kids who don’t want to share the toys in kindergarten but also don’t want to play with them.
And that is if you assume that all those 1000+ servers are available to all players, which conveniently ignores the fact that not all servers are for the same gameplay mode, or that not all servers are in the same region, or that not all servers in the same region have a decent ping for each player.
There actually are differences between spots, but like I said, that’s not what the argument is about. For someone who “really hopes not to turn this into a 100-reply back and forth again”, you sure like to ignore counterarguments.
When I talk about finite shared resources, I’m not talking about location only. Available surface area is one of those resources, but there are others, such as memory, bandwidth, and processing power. The more buildings you have on the server, the more you’re taxing that server’s resources. It’s part of the game, assuming that you’re playing the game. But the cumulative degradation of server performance in service of people who aren’t playing is just adding insult to injury.
This seems hyperbolic, but it actually mirrors an experience I had in another game amazingly well.
There was 4 v 4 mode in this game and players got XPs for every match regardless of what or how well they did. This is good for players who aren’t great to be able to still level up, but unfortunately it’s also very easily exploited
It was common to have at least five AFKers each match and ended up making it basically unplayable. I had more than one match that I loaded in to find I was the only player not AFK🤮
It could be on some yes, on the official I was on, for about the last six months, my real estate was the only stuff on the server. In the last month, population has exploded, and of the people playing, no one has complained about our stuff, and has even gone so far as to compliment my open map rooms and walkways in areas as being helpful.
Then why exactly is anyone even upset if people are refreshing bases (obviously so long as they arent blocking stuff)? If the anger isnt because they can build elsewhere…by god, build elsewhere and let people have their bases. I dont see how anyone can be upset if its NOT about building in a particular area hence why I reference it.
Nope, its not. Search for officials, then type (pvp or pve) then click on population to sort for low instead of high. Literally three clicks. Its not hard.
While true, and I know the 1000’s of servers covers all Funcom’s officials across all types and regions, I will guarantee you there are lots of empty servers in each region of all types. Not hard to find some empty ones if thats what you desire.
Adding an Edit here: I just checked PVE North American servers, and searched for low population: 25 servers with 0 pop, 10 servers with 1 player, 8 servers with 2 players and 9 with population between 3-9. Thats 52 servers with 9 or less players. That quite alot to choose from.
PVE/C servers - 16 servers with 0 population and 5 with 1-3 players.
PVP servers - showed me 15 servers with 0, but these dont matter since you can destroy stuff you dont like.
^^^ Point here isnt a gotcha, but rather, there are options.
Ok, I can acccept that answer. Solution? Low pop servers. Take some time to scout out low pop or empty to see whats built. Almost certain that on PVE servers you can tell how crowded a server could be building wise, since lots of people build altars for the crafting. If you log into a server and see 500 altars on the map - its congested, even if its low pop. If you see an empty map with low pop, chances are your going to be alright. A bit of homework before starting works too.
If so, I have no idea what it’s supposed to measure – Funcom never explained that – but all officials in my search list are “low”. The server list is empty if I set it to “medium” or “high”, so that filter is useless for the purposes of our discussion.
If, on the other hand, you’re talking about sorting by number of players, then you’re talking out of your lower dorsal orifice. The number of players shows how many players are currently logged in, not how many have built their forgotten theme parks on the server.
In fact, unlimited building and serial refreshing are two biggest reasons for why the number of currently logged in players cannot be used as an estimate of the server population.
And now we’ve gone from false equivalence to false dichotomy. No, “empty server” is not what I desire and it’s not the only possible alternative to “dead server with lots of buildings”. But more on that below.
Did you also check the ping for them? Maybe your geographic location is better than mine, or maybe your ISP has a better infrastructure in place than mine. Whatever the case, when I sort official PVE-C servers by ping, the top 10 are usable, and the rest are going to be laggy.
If the options are between a turd soup and a turd salad, you’re not gonna have a great lunch either way. That’s when you go and start complaining about people who put turds in your food. That’s what some of us are doing here.
Yeah, “homework” is precisely what I do. I’ve played this game long enough that I know what to look for, so I spend some time scouting out the servers before I choose one to settle down with my new character. Hell, sometimes I even spend 30 minutes running around, before I decide, because even if there are few T3 shrines on the map, you’ll still sometimes get a bunch of bloated semi-abandoned crap infesting the server.
So yeah, if you do some “homework”, you can pick the least shіtty server. Congratulations, are you having fun with the game yet? And that’s if you know what to look for, which requires sticking with this game long enough to learn that and liking it despite all this. Which brings me to my next, and final, point:
This is precisely what I’m pointing out all this time.
All this nitpicking about how many servers we have available and hand-wringing about how it’s so hard to understand why people complain, all of it deliberately and willfully ignores the cumulative effect of serial refreshers, at least on PVE(-C) servers.
And that cumulative effect is detrimental.
Take a typical PVE(-C) “ghost town” server, full of grandiose (or at least massive) builds and with less than a handful players online during the “prime time”. A newbie comes in, expecting that playing this game on an official server means having fun with other people. Upon seeing all these builds, what is this newbie going to think? “Oh, wow, this is pretty creative! I bet I’ll meet a lot of fun people here.” But there are maybe 3 people on the server and the rest log in to refresh, 5 minutes a week, if that. Boooooooooring.
Some of these newbies will be very lucky: they’ll stumble upon a server with decent ping where the average population during prime time is high enough to have fun with other people, but there are still decent spots to build, and the server isn’t so full of elaborate theme parks and follower zoos to make it lag horribly. These people have lucked out. The rest will either get bored of low population on a ghost town server, or get bored of not being able to swing a cat without hitting someone’s huge build, or get bored of constant lag.
Veteran players, on the other hand, know what the score is. They’ll make a list of servers with good enough ping and then go spend up to 30 minutes on each, then pick the least crappy one, settle there, and hope that things will work out. If it was a good server to start with, they’ll have fun until either other people get bored and turn the server into a ghost town, or a clan of trolls and griefers lands on it and ruins the fun for everyone, or maybe someone new builds a whole ton of stuff that brings the server performance down to its knees. If it wasn’t a very good server from the start, they might stay and hope that eventually some of the stuff will decay and someone new will walk in and start actually freaking playing the freaking game.
Of course, some of this crap is already being slowly sorted out by Funcom. The bloat is slowly being weeded out through reports, so at least we might stop having to worry about the server being a lagfest. Let’s hope that Funcom focuses on the ghost town effect next.
Im talking about using current online players to find a low population server. Then, like I explained, a person can do some map checking and running around to see how many buildings are there, if any. If server performance is the highest, most important thing for a player when joining a PVE server…this is the least you would do, since (guessing) 99% of players when choosing a server dont do this. They go for a populated server for the community feeling, and I understand that.
There is not a thing in the world a game developer can do to solve this for individual players so its a moot point. You cannot cater games to people who have bad ping due to geographic location.
But going into a restaurant called “100 ways to serve turds” your going to get what you think. Find me another multiplayer game like Conan with the freedom to build and play the game that doesnt lag out, studder or have server issues when the server is populated either by people or buildings. They all do.
I didnt quote your whole reply too long lol. Your not wrong here in anything you said. But that new player wants a populated server for that community feel. I understand that, and yeah on PVE thats a big part of the game. So, he wants that, and a smooth running server, and no buildings crowding everything and this, and that, then this, then that. The only things to do in Conan on a PVE server is running the dungeons, collecting thralls and building (and maybe RPing but there arent any official servers whose rules state RP so Im not gonna include this). I mean, on a populated server, what do you expect then? There will be buildings all over the place, from new, current and old players.
Maybe the solution is wiping? Nope, lots will be upset with that too. Shorten the decay? Seems unfair when that only caters to new people who dont have much time invested. Until Funcom does a drastic change to their rules (which could happen, theyve done big things before after years of denying it) the only solution if you want a smooth running server is to find a more empty one.
It’s not a moot point, and there are things devs can do about this. They already did them, in fact: they provided us with plenty of servers all over the globe, so that the geographical distribution will ensure that there’s something for everyone.
In other words, the devs provided us with options. And then some players started making those options worse across the board. Which is why the ball is in the devs’ court again, so they’ll deal with this behavior somehow
Pretty much every other post I wrote to you in this thread includes a part where I’m saying that if you’re playing the game actively, then at least you’re “giving something back”, so to speak. You’re not just a drain on the server resources, you’re not just hogging the land, you’re actually playing the game. That was the whole point.
We don’t need to conflate all the things that drag the game down and pretend that a change is no good if it doesn’t magically solve all of them.
I would be fine with an upkeep system that requires people to be more active the more they built. They don’t have to be active at a constant rate, because it’s supposed to be a game, not a job or a recurring appointment. But they should be active on average and that average should depend on how much server they’re “taking up”.
“What could we do?” Maybe have some in-game mechanics that requires players to play the game if they want to keep their stuff. “How about periodically wipe all the stuff people have built?” Or maybe some in-game mechanics that ensures people actually play the game? “You’re right, wiping won’t work. Perhaps we could make the refreshers to log in more often, so they spend 15 minutes a week instead of 5?” How about in-game mechanics to make them play the game? “You’re right, shorter decay won’t work either. I don’t know, maybe if they change the rules?” Or in-game mechanics so people play the game? “Damn, I guess there are no solutions to a problem this hard.”
Look, it’s not about a “smooth running server”, just like it wasn’t about “building in the exact same spot as someone else”, and it won’t be about any other thing on which you decide try to shift the focus next. What I’ve been saying right from the start is that it’s about the cumulative effect serial refreshers have on the PVE(-C) servers.
A dead server is bad. A server that’s stressed by overbuilding but has a lively community is not ideal, but it’s much, much better than a dead server. But a dead, overbuilt server? That’s just shіt. You can serve it on a surf-and-turf risotto that came from a Michelin star restaurant, but it’ll still smell awful and nobody should be forced to eat it.
That is what many have wanted. And simple as using iron bars for t1, Steel Bars for T2, and hardened Steel for T3. This way it requires some crafting time, meaning have to revisit. And the most you should be able to place in the station that drives this is 2 weeks worth of mats for the current build attached to it.
And to also help with thrall decay, can rephrase the feed stations to do this. Meaning it counts thralls and burns food based on that number at 1 hour intervals.
So Funcom already solved the ping/lag issue and that becomes like I said, a moot point.
I guess thats where we see things differently. You see people who refresh their bases as a drain on server resources, and I just dont. If their building are so big and massive as to be such a horrendous drain, Im quite sure (and you likely agree) some daily active players have just as much. Wipe their stuff too? Or do they get a pass because they are “active”?
So then what is it? First I thought it was building locations taken up that others couldnt have, then you said no, its not that. Then it was a drain on server resources, and now your saying its not that.
I aint moving the goal posts here…
…which is a drain on server resources as youve explained. But thats not what it is right?
So you would like to see all servers only have active players so people, both new and old can enjoy the game. Arent you denying those that have time invested in the game their gameplay by telling them they are in the wrong?
The rules (at this point) do not mention players or their bases that take extended time from the game. It does not mention it being wrong to log in and refresh to keep their stuff. Before you try to say that Im using the excuse of “well its not in the rules so fair game” technically, yeah its true…its not in the rules so its fair gameplay. But Im not using that excuse. Im trying to point out that everything you are seeing as wrong and want fixed or changed it part of the game. You said yourself that its a game and not a job. Let people come and go, and if they make the time every few days to keep their builds, let them.