Well, I(and probably many others) miss the open world PvP and lowlevel minigames in AOC.
This is content that arent possible to experience trough the normal server anymore.
It has been too long since last time I experienced unexpected PvP while questing. Or the weird way we did PvP in the underhalls of tortage, the duels on the white sands shores. The kill hunt down conalls valley!
These are the things I want to do in Age of Conan! Lets do that, if only once more!
I certainly miss it as well, the good and the bad. As much as I loved White Sands PvP I would think that on an Event Server geared towards end game raiding that PvP may not be wise.
I would think that maybe something along the lines of a Blood and Glory Server with Unique PvP rewards for World and Mini that you can bring back to your home server but with that said I would never think it a good idea to run more than 1 Event Server at a time due to the limited base of niche players.
I’d settle for just throwing up a PvP saga server after the current saga server, worked for Deathwish and Rage for the a few months, and that’s the life span of a saga server anyway, but a few things I’d like to see;
Focus on group play and teaming up using the old mini game queue but lessen the focus on mini games as the main form of progression
Grant PvP T2 set upon reaching lvl 80
Rewards for world PvP
Disable event week and create more dynamic events that can be done at any time so long as people are there to do it - ie; instanced area games like white sands conquest one day, the next day death match in Khesh etc would be pretty cool (could be set to 6 v 6 or 12 v 12 etc).
Give any guild that books a guild city spot a T3 guild city so BKs can be claimed
Limit the number of BKs to however many would create competition (could be 3, could be 5+, depends on how popular it is) and give proper rewards for winning sieges, lower the count from 48 players to 24 per side.
PvP Saga questline that includes winning mini games in all level brackets, completing world pvp objectives and sieging.
It used to be sooo much fun with the G v G in Northern Grasslands. I really miss it but Tortage PvP is some of the best. Everyone is close to the same level and gear. The only thing that does make it a bit unbalanced now is the advantage that subs have with AA at 20 instead of 80.
I dont know if you have tried getting into PvP in aoc? As it is now I would imagine its nearly impossible. Because you have to play against better geared oponend, thats way more skilled than you, with a combat system that is hard to deal with to begin with.
This obsticle will kill all PvP there is in aoc sooner or later.
Before there was lowlevel PvP. You could level a char to 19, 39 or 59. The best gear was somehow easy to obtain and there were fewer abilities. Nearly no mikromanagement, people was able to become masters of the core of the combat system before they had to deal with all the extra mikro management.
This is one reason.
Another reason is that there is many players who left aoc when open world PvP on fury died and all PvP that was left for them was to sign minis with a 50% chance of getting in the same team as tjeir friend.
A third reason is that there is currently no good world pvp in aoc, so a PvP saga server will give players an experience that is no longer available in aoc.
If the next saga were to be PvP my bet is that we would see alot more returning players. Also it would give new players or PvE veterans that would like to get in to PvP a bridge to actually do so.
The problems of PVP need to be addressed before a full scale PVP server could be successful. Here’s the short list that needs to be addressed:
Players need to be able to join minigames with 2-3 players as a group. This is an mmo, every other online game in history allows you to play with friends except this one.
Fury is dead. However, the PVP Event week is miles better on Fury/Rage because it utilizes classic zones. Merge Fury and have remaining servers enable the PVP Festival week in the good zones and enable 1 zone per week for PVP. Otherwise, adopt the full PVE ruleset.
Enable completion of Minigame quests under level 80. This will boost participation and will provide a cushion where players can gain more PVP XP and PVP gear tokens before they hit 80. This will decrease the slaughterfest that happens at 80 and makes new players quit PVP instantly.
Force players to stay at 19 for X amount of time (2,3,4 weeks?), 39 for X, 59 for X, 79 for X, then 80. No rush to 80. Enjoy lowbie pvp in all the instances. Every zone will be packed. PVP will be available everywhere
One aspect of open world PvP that has never appealed to me is the prospect of being harassed by higher levels …not a couple of levels higher …but like a level 60+ harassing tortage level toons. One of my friends related their experience of being followed zone to zone by a level 80 and repeatedly killed by that person as they were trying to level up … not what I consider fun.
So make a Saga PvP server where this is much harder to do with several zone-in options:
instance where you have to be within level (or say +/- three levels) only to enter - so you are only facing off against similar level characters in open world pvp
instance where you can be any level to enter … this will enable players to complete quests if they out level the zone or back-tracking for achievements or to get to dungeons or raids, but you know when you enter it’s an all-level-enter-at-your-own-risk zone. To encourage people to live more dangerously and quest here the rewards could be better … say loot boxes with xp/aa/ consumables (so the player can use when they want to boost character or not if they don’t want to out level a mini game set)
instance where you can not be in a group AND everyone is attackable (guild mates included) … harder for pack-hunters to gang up and harass lone players … sure they can still work together but at the risk of damaging their friends as they do so.
Also, greater Rez pad respawn options, such as all the two closest to you in the zone not just one like it happens so often now…as a way for people to escape Rez pad campers. (Especially as for eight hours a day there are no GMs online to respond to petitions of harassment)
Being harassed by higher level players is one of the big reasons AoC got hit so hard after the free month was over back in 2008.
Whitesands was a complete mess since leveling was impossible due to lvl26 blue geared assassins and rangers snuffing out anything venturing 100m from respad. The same was happening in underhalls.
The first 500m of Conall’s was a duck shoot with lvl 27-35 rangers popping lvl 20’s out of hiding with traps only to virtually one-shot them.
FoTD was locked down for days by gemmed lvl 80 polearm guards one-shotting people leveling while passing them on horseback with several GM’s watching indifferently as they chat casually with the gank squad.
This toxic behavior withered away the player base for months until the game was canned in favor of The Secret World.
When you are refused to level up by other players the game gets old within minutes, and when there is no possibility to level by doing pvp you are left with no option but to play something that is more rewarding or be farmed to boredom. Too bad Funcom didn’t realize this until several months after the game was mortally wounded.
1/ White Sands, Acheronian Ruins and Underhalls were locked to lvl25 max back then. The only way to get a lvl26 inside one of those areas was to get your level and never get out again. Those players were few and far between, and you could avoid them by going to another instance and another respad. I got 4 chars out of Tortage quite easily in the first year and two more were left behind to hunt down those players It was hard, but levelling was possible.
2/ Of those 4 chars I mentioned earlier, 2 started the mainland in Connal’s Valley. Strangely enough, I saw more people protecting lower levels than gankers getting kills. Again, avoiding the gankers was easy enough by using instances and respads. The fun part was going to the ganker’s instance as group leader while your friends went into the epic one.
3/ The gem period ender after 3 months. Most people were busy killing each others in Kheshatta and around group and raid instances at the time. Again, avoiding bla respad bla.
As for you accusing the Gms of slacking on the job, I hope you have proofs to back that up.
4/ The player base withered because of the numerous bugs. PVE servers suffered as much as PVP ones at the time. The community didn’t have much of an impact on that.
Fun fact: numbers went up again starting January 2009 with the first merges, the opening of more group and raid instances (especially Xibaluku and Wing 3), the addition of pvp resources for battlekeeps and the announcement of the upcoming 1.05 patch.
5/ TSW was released in 2012, four years after AoC. That’s significantly more than ‘months’ or ‘several months’.
Yes, there was quite a few of these players present, I know of people that had several lvl 26’s on white sands on fury. They were not a rare species at all. In fact they are still there waiting for more players if the day should ever come.
I got 20-25 chars out of Tortage. You are missing my point entirely.Yes, these gank only chars were possible to avoid, but why change game from an established MMO that you are mastering to a game that you are being stopped from levleling in for hours at a time? These players poisoned the beginner zones, not only tortage, to the degree that people unable to level and enjoy the game left after the free month was over.
Once again you are missing my point entirely. Both you and I are still here 10 years later. It is not players like you and me I’m talking about it’s the tens of thousands if not more of players that don’t have the patience or indeed the time in their busy lives to stick it out in spite of toxic gank guilds. People that have maybe an hour or two in the evening to relax and play. People that don’t have the time to get 50m from respad only to be popped out of hiding by a ranger and one-shotted by a guard 40 lvl’s higher on horseback for those precious few hours. Both you and the dev’s at Funcom at the time seem to have this point pass over your heads like a warm Khopshef summer breeze.
Yes, the 3 most important months in the history of the game. A bug that enables you to instakill players or in effect become unkillable is not a minor thing. Couple this with the ability to clone items by creative inventory usage and the trade mechanism and the disaster that was the gem feature was complete.
What makes you think that I need to provide you with hard evidence of personal experience?
Believe me or not, I couldn’t care less what you do. This is the internet, everybody is an expert.
Except for certain pvp servers where players gleefully and actively contributed to the downfall. Not blaming the toxic pvp’ers as much as the game mechanics catering to a very very small part of the player base.
I know bugs was a big problem, and many bugs are still with us today as is many of the pvp’ers, but on a PvE server since the only pvp server in existence is for all practical purposes dead.
Yes, and I bet it took only a few weeks to conceive of, story write for, create art for, create models for, animate those models, create an environment for, animate that environment, program models and environment and test everything extensively. I know I tested TSW quite some time ahead of the release. I cant’ remember the exact date but testing had been going on for some time. When we are talking about TSW we are talking about a game that was in the early development stages when AoC was but a few months old. For argument’s sake, I will say they pulled it out of the “interesting concept drawer” right around the time AoC started to seriously sink.
It happens in almost every game that trys pvp (other than shooters like battlefield), the community are the ones that ruin the pvp environment and cause populations to decrease. Most players can’t control themselves and will gank lower level players, or someone already at low health. And they’ll usually continue to farm a single person over and over again until that person just quits. While flaws in game mechanics are not a players fault but exploiting those to an unfare advantage leaves a sour taste in people’s mouth when they are the ones on the receiving end.
To make a pvp style sever work for both pvp and pve players you need a system that limits the number of disadvantages.
1.) All zones need to be level locked for PvP so higher level players can’t participate in PvP in lower level zones.
2.) There needs to be balance, and not in the normal balance of classes. A pve to pvp balance. No one wants to always pvp, sometimes a player just wants to do a quest or relax and not have to be on guard 24/7. One way to do this is to give players a buff they can cast that gives them some additional pvp armor/protection bonus so they can’t be ganked but while the player has this buff they can’t attack other players first. Probably some other ways to do this to but the point is no one wants to pvp all the time or everyone would be playing on the pvp server.
3.) Repeatedly being killed in pvp should provide that player with a buff kinda like RF. You gain increased strength but as soon as you kill someone else or after a certain time the debuff goes away.
4.) Don’t make the major rewards strictly pvp. Even if the reward was a complete set of a new top Teir PvP armor, I personally wouldn’t waste my time. And I know alot of pve players like this. We will endure and participate in PvP but only if it ultimately provides a benefit to us in pve. Or give the player a choice between a PvP item or an equivalent pve item.
The answer to your 3 first points has already been given: gankers were indeeed a pain, but they were easy to avoid and help was plentiful at the time. I was new to the whole MMO thing back then, didn’t even know the common terms. i was helped and found ways. Nobody was stopped from leveling. People just stop trying too easily.
As for the gem bug, again, it affected only the pvp side of the game. As I already said, the pvp and pve servers suffered equally at the time. See point 4/.
GMs: accusations need to be backed up by evidence. If not, that’s libel.
Fun fact: work on TSW started before work on AoC. Focus was given to AoC later, and given back to TSW once AoC was launched. There’s nothing unusual about that.