what hardware are you running?
I have a similar base on official…ZERO issues, 3-8 people on my server usually online.
EDIT: oh, PS5 my bad…
could it be that PC is simply less affected?
I mean I run CE on a Legion 5 Laptop (Ryzon 7/4070 mobile, NVme SSD, 32 GB RAM)
It is clear that the PS4 version is badly optimized (the PS5 version does not exist) but I would not be told if the delay of the server is due to the PS5 or to the number of NPCs/Trunk.
but the suction of the halves of These were solved the server’s delay problem. coincidence?
correlation is not causation…
but again, for how long would a wipe solve that problem? The cause for the problem would still be there.
I think you should reread my message to realize that I agree on this point with you
Funny thing, that:
You both know very well what I was saying, but you both decided to pretend I was talking about something else entirely.
But since we’re pretending, let’s pretend that you both deserve a reply.
No, it’s not. People aren’t “abusing the ToC” by playing normally on a server for years. Hoarding items isn’t an abuse of the ToC, nor is putting them in chests. And yes, I’ve seen your “argument” about that:
You are deliberately misinterpreting a line in the ToC to support your narrative. Using that “logic”, any construction leads to loss of performance both on client and server side.
I could go on, but we both know you don’t care. Once you’ve found a technicality to hang on to, you’re not going to let it go.
If you can’t make your point without resorting to hyperbole, then it isn’t as valid as you thought. Notice that the rest of your examples in that same paragraph are still hyperbole: cheating, exploiting, and griefing.
It’s not “the freedom card”. It’s about presenting your own preferences as “the way to play”.
To be clear, I don’t disagree with all of your points. What I disagree with are two ideas:
Is overbuilding a problem? Yes. Is performance a problem? Yes. Are periodic wipes the only or even the best solution to this? No. Should we all adopt “journey before destination” as our credo? No.
Well so far there have only been two solutions provided over the course of the past 4 years that has been pointed out as the problem that I remember. These are
1)Periodic wipes
2) Building caps.
3)Upkeep costs
The only one that FC hasn’t spoken about is upkeep costs. Perhaps this is the way we can do this since it’s the only avenue open as far as dev input.
No it doesn’t so it’s blanket and covers any and everything that causes it.
IMO
No, and not my base issue with big builds. CodeMage convinced me log ago the issue isn’t foundations; build pieces.
No. I said as much further up, do try to keep up.
For you. I don’t have to question @Xevyr because I trust they have the numbers, and have done the math.
I think you’ve found the issue.
Not even, and has been pointed out not the issue.
The “?” signified it was a question, as in me questioning my interpenetration.
You know me too well.
None the less, IF multiple full vaults are causing server lag would that not violate that part of the ToC?
And why it’s not my 1st solution to those issues.
Is it that I am pretended at one time or another the opposite?
I have never said that the plasa (NPC/Boxes) had no impact on server’s performance, I even thought (wrongly) that the lights were as a source of latency @Xevyr my demonstrated the opposite in which keeps the server side
I mainly meant that a lot of others commenting afterwards kept naming client-side things like lighting etc. as factors that influence server performance.
Deacons list was more accurate as those things do indeed contribute to poor server performance. Though he kind of listed hoarding like 3 separate times under different names 
The Gportal part as number one is probably pretty spot on… unfortunately that host just seems to have issues running Conan. Even when you rent from them it’s a hit or miss… they can actually provide good servers, I know several people who are very happy with them, but the problem is consistency across the board, getting a good server is like winning the lottery… and officials all seem to be of the bad variety (most likely they have their own category under a special contract).
Placeables (decoration) are actually a massive hit for the server, probably quite high on that list, mainly because people tend to have a lot of it. Each placeable is its own entity (actor). For the server though a torch is the same as a mug, it’s just a placeable since the server doesn’t do audio-visual stuff, in fact most of the components that do these are deliberately destroyed on the server side when creating the object to free up some memory.
Buildings are quite a bit more optimized, they use instancing. Connected building pieces will share the same host entity up to a certain amount and they use instanced meshes which are also easier on the client (same mesh that’s already processed is displayed multiple times). This makes empty connected buildings quite a bit cheaper on the server than placeables. Ofc they can add up if the build is super large (think of it as about a 100:1 ratio… 100 connected building pieces have about the same impact as a placeable)
AI is quite a big hitter especially combined with navigation (so yay living settlements). All AI code fully runs on the server and merely the movement of the characters are replicated to the clients. That’s why the game tries to employ several optimization techniques, AILOD being the main one that shuts off not just AI but also the functioning of crafting stations etc when no players are in range of them to preserve resources. It’s why usually your thrall is safe when you die and get teleported to the bedroll provided no other players are there - all combat between NPCs is suspended without players present… in fact they can’t even navigate as the game uses a dynamic navigation mesh that’s mostly generated around players. (for the same reason, since covering the full map this size would kill performance).
So yes… the list is fairly accurate and obviously playing on a server and using the server comes with a performance hit… Wipes would indeed speed it up significantly, but if ofc results in destroying all player property, so there’s that 
The biggest improvement would be (for the server side of things) to simply get a better host imo. so that gportal on the top of that list actually speaks volumes.
I would also say that the argument over server vs client loads is irrelevant to the end user. If the game crashes or the server crashes, the individual user doesn’t see a difference outside of ability to load in quickly again vs wait for server reboot. On the game company side of things, there is a huge difference between the two however the end user is still put off with not able to play. It has been known for sometime that client load exploiting is a PVP tactic…a nasty one and one against the TOC but still its something PVP dealt with a lot back in the day.
Although I am seeing more PVE client boots because of the sheer scope of some folks building efforts.
Upkeep is something that sounds decent on paper, but won’t really work in reality.
Tuning that would be a nightmare. Make it easy enough so its not an issue for most players and there is no change. Tune it enough to make a dent, and many players who are just trying to play as they usually do will consider quitting over it.
And let’s say it works perfectly. People don’t mind, and keep their building sizes down (a fantasy, but lets use that outcome for the sake of argument). You didn’t tackle the largest contributions to server issues. Your 2-3 FPS (server) went to 3-4… maybe, during primetime with 20+ players online.
Back to the subject of wipes, I do want to alter my opinion slightly on them not exactly working or working long term. So I said that people would easily be able to rebuild, would easily just cause the same issues within days or weeks. And I still stand by that. But after a few periodic wipes, things would actually improve. The reason being, is that people would get bored of them and get turned off with them. Playing on a server that wipes on occasion take a certain type of player. One that doesn’t usually gravitate towards such servers. Its one of the main points people have against playing on a private server since about 90% of them -do- wipe periodically. People who handle wipes already do, and those that don’t, play on the public servers.
Some of those who play on the public severs may not be bothered by wipes. Some will. Many I suspect will enjoy the first wipe. That feeling of starting over, seeing everything new again, and the fresh performance a new server has. But six months to a year later when it happens again, they might enjoy it again. But not as much. And then eventually they’ll move on, having very little to keep them around knowing their progress will zero out yet again and they don’t have it in them to do it again.
So the population will dwindle and that of course will help with performance. But you’ll also have to contend with server merges again, and even more reduced player counts on a subsection of the servers.
And the other issue with wipes is when they scheduled. Lets say every year on January. Well… populations in the last quarter will suffer because who is going to commit to serious gameplay knowing full well their server is going to wipe in the next month or two? You’ll see seasonable population numbers rise and fall because of it. Great bursts of population in Jan, that peters out in the spring and stabilizes in summer, then dies off in fall.
Its for this reason that many servers I’ve played on didn’t even schedule their wipes. They’d simply monitor the server performance, and if the server got too bloated, they’d announce at that point a wipe was happening in a week or so. This kept the population stable until nearly the very end of the cycle.
I don’t see that going over well if FC did the same. Just picking a random date 6-9 months from opening to just wipe the servers with very little (5-7 days) notice. I don’t think the community would like it, even though for the sake of population stability, it would be the best thing for them to do.
“I just started building this epic recreation of x, and now its going to be gone in a few days. I wouldn’t have even logged in to try if I had known…”
Yeah that’s the point of not telling you. To keep people logging in as if nothing is happening.
There’s somewhat dark side to wiping that makes it work, and work well that many aren’t really aware of. But I don’t believe many players will be readily accepting of it.
I am done with this pointless discussion.
It is pretty clear that the thrall related systems that were introduced put a much higher strain on the server than anything else.
In the past before moderation, there were bases that spanned 1-2 map quadrants, thousands of thralls manning walls, workshops, gardens and uncountable items in chests and the lag wasn’t worse than it is today.
I actually believe, that if there were regular server wipe, this would be a post mortem forum where we would keep the memory of an abandoned game with one living server where Deacon would anxiously wait for his next wipe 
oh an @DeaconElie please stop with this one line nitpicking mass quote replies. That is tiring and obviously constructed to either drive your point home or ridicule other posters.
Wipe you later alligator
Crashing is when the game runs into a fatal error and stops unexpectedly.
We’re not talking about crashing here, since by definition the game isn’t running anymore during a crash so there’s not much sense in measuring performance 
That’s a whole different beast.
The reason server vs client loads are relevant to the user is because the server dictates gameplay… if the server performs poorly and is unable to update things at a reasonable rate… then you can have the best client experience ever… stable constant 60 fps and all that jazz… NPCs will still blink around, you will still be hit without seeing where it came from and all your thralls will still miss every single attack they do.
So having a bad server can screw over even players who did everything they could on their end and are also running capable hardware - which is ofc where things become an issue… when you’re negatively affecting somebody else’s gameplay.
I think that’s why people like discussing server performance in particular. Though I agree that in general players won’t know or care about much of this - which is why I said earlier that this whole thread is more of a theoretical discussion - in practice… the game either runs well or it doesn’t and most players won’t have the insight or even patience to try and pick it apart and see which exact element they can point fingers at, they’ll just get frustrated and close the game
True, there are no other solutions, provided that we:
So, for example, if you treat performance problems and some players’ tendency to overbuild as if those two were just one problem, then yeah, not many solutions present themselves.
And that’s just the thing: people like you and me and @DeaconElie have been around here for so long that we’ve given up all hope for better solutions.
Conan Exiles is a Gordian Knot of many different problems, and it got into that state because Funcom let it. It’s understandable that people want to apply the proverbial solution to it and just cut through it with a big-ass sword.
But that doesn’t make it right.
Bingo! Loss of server performance in a server-authoritative game is always a bigger problem than loss of client performance.
Server performance problems are non-local. If I’m running around the map and stumble upon a base that causes significant client performance problems, I’ll have a bad experience. If I’m running around the map and sutmble upon a base that causes significant server performance problems, everyone on the server will have a bad experience.
I don’t know about others, but I prefer discussing server performance because these discussions tend to be about proposed solutions.
If I’m just complaining about a problem, it doesn’t really matter if I understand the difference between server and client performance. The same applies if I’m merely demanding a solution from Funcom, without proposing one of my own.
But when we cross the line into proposing solutions, the difference becomes important.
So your lengthy explanation looks totally plausible and such, but I really need to ask you where your field of expertise lies…have you worked with these kind of server hosting etc.? Is this your hobby? Are you extrapolating this from your observations? Have you looked at traffic data?
This all sounds absolutely plausibel, but then again, it could be completely wrong even made up to support your side of the argument.
I hope you understand what I’m trying to say here, I mean no insult, but I for one am do not experiencing any of these issues on the officials I’m on.
The only time I had issues was when basically everybody tried to do the new purge. Basically meaning that the number of players are the main reason, especially if they spawn lots of NPCs.
totally, especially if the solutions are so consequencial, and we haven’t even established if the cause for the problem is affected by that controversial solution.
Which in this case, it isn’t, because just weeks later the problem would show up again.
Also, and I wawnt to stress that: I had a significant performance increase when I switched from a HDD to an SSD. Seemed the model data loaded significantly faster when it came into view. I hate to say but I feel that most people’s bottle neck might be their storage device.
sorry, but not good enough. Also, does he have the numbers? Has he done the math? In his lengthy explanation he never referred to any data he accumulated.
I guess since Anderson kindly accused me of only posting on the forums when I wish to flog my mods, here you go 
While I do have background in software development, in this instance it’s more of a “hobby” specialized to this game. Basically I made over 30 mods, studied the conan souce code extensively to provide information to players / the wiki / guides and help for other modders. As such I have a pretty good idea how this entire game is built from the ground up and what parts of it run on the client and which ones on the server etc.
In any case, usually my intention is not to argue, but to provide information… answer questions when I can… unfortunately I constantly run into situations on these forums where some people prefer pushing myths even in the face of overwhelming evidence (not talking about you just to clarify) so it gets a bit exhausting after I already explained something pretty clearly and they keep endlessly ignoring it so that it comes down to other people jumping in and telling them that I’m usually right
I agree that this shouldn’t be the reason people accept an explanation, but I can totally understand why some jump in who have witnessed these arguments in the past. Here’s a very good example that kind of burnt me out and made me avoid the forums for half a year
How? If it takes 6 years to hoard up a few dozen vaults of content, you are not going to do it again in a matter of weeks through NORMAL GAME PLAY. I honestly don’t think you comprehend the level of hoarding I’m referring to.
I have no reason to doubt it.
You know I really don’t think you understand what sever lag is, your rig has NOTHING to do with it. That is client side not server side.
Tell me what tools you use to measure server lag?
probably the same you use…lol.
ok, good for you. I repeat: not good enough for me.
I can comprehend. The question is though can you comprehend that without any systemic changes, the problem will simply creep up again…I said weeks, but the amount of time is irrelevant to the problem…it will simply happen, and YOU don’t know when the problem will surface again…if THAT is even the problem to begin with.
We are running in circles here. I already made this argument 4 times. You continue to hang your counterargument on the timeframe, I’m referring to the problem not being addresses in general. Even if it takes 2 month until you encounter the same problems, might be even quicker depending on the number of active players on the server…they are still the same problems and the wipe solved NOTHING.
so you make mods…aha. Is that specifically related to server data transfer rates and such? Please give a short answer.