PVP players should raid sandstone bases

Conan Exiles General Discussion
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There’s been a bit of discussion lately about overpowered endgame/Siptah gear making PVP less fun. People have put lots of solutions forward like balancing items, playing on private servers, or speeding up levelling and harvesting so there isn’t such a grind to get to level 60.

I reckon the PVP culture of honour might be partly to blame. Maybe it’s just where I play, but on most PVP servers I’ve been on, most players and clans don’t attack someone lower level than them, and don’t attack people until they have a T3 base. It’s even an actual rule on some private servers. Tne idea is that you have to give new players time to learn the game, and vet players time to level up so it’s a “real” fight. I do it myself. If I see a T1 4x4 I investigate but otherwise ignore it.

I think this is a bad idea. What I should be doing is raiding it, with whatever crappy stuff I have to hand! I think we all should be raiding one another from the moment someone lands on PVP. Not waiting and grinding and hiding until we’re all level 60 with a T3 base and then start PVPing.

Think about it. The game has tools designed for PVP at all stages. People (me included) complain about no-one using sub-epic gear. They complain that the game starts at level 60 and everything before that is grind. People say demon fire orbs are pointless. Well yeah, if you’re using them to attack T3! They’re meant for attacking T1. But very few people do that. I’ve seen hungry new players who did get “punished” by vet players because “you don’t raid sandstone.”

Imagine how much better PVP would be if people were fighting from the beginning, ceaselessly, with whatever they had? Instead of waiting until endgame where it’s all or nothing, and defeat means days/weeks of building and grinding gone in seconds, or when you’re offline.

I’m not going to pick on new players. No character below my level. Incidentally, that makes level 60 mean something. But from now on I’m going to PVP from level 1, attacking people at a similar stage to me.

Raid sandstone!

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Imagine a time when you could raid sandstone with steel weapons. Ruthless.

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Stone Daggers with Reaper poison can be very effective.

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Tons of that going on at the Mounds of the Dead. It’s like make it or bust.

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What I hated in the beginning of the game was the mentality of some lvl 60 full epic to go down to the noob River and kill or destroy the new comers. But at the same time I hate the mentality of building all over the noob River not allowing to other players to do their first survival steps in this game.
I do believe that new players or low level players must raid each other because this is the pvp baptism of the game. That is why I agree thar pvp is pvp no matter the level or the tier.
But how do we balance this?
How we make sure that low level players are attacked by low level players?
How we make sure that stone is against stone, iron against iron and so it goes?
It cannot be done in this game.
It is an open map game and your pvp progress is defined from your pve actions, isn’t it?
There for I suggest transfers from pve servers to pvp.
Yet the player could transfer only the character, nothing else.
Landing in a new pvp server lvl 60 you have equal chance to stay alive, even naked. It is very easy for a lvl 60 player to go all around the map, even naked to choose his spot, to obtain the obelisks(in exile lands), and to grow in no time, so day two I pvp with everyone with good chances of win, or gg.
There for, raiding sandstone or black ice, killing naked or full epic, makes no big difference. A player who knows the pve aspect can grow and revenge this attitude in no time, so this behavior will be “punished”, really soon :wink:. It would be a “reason to kill you first here”. Fun, purely pvp fun, that all the pvp players are looking for.
I believe this action would give good population equally to pve and pvp servers and pvec would stay to the original plan, role play.

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I hate the idea of ruining the day of someone who is new to the game. It just violates my conscience. I don’t care if someone else does it, but raiding sandstone on Noob River or free standing Flotsam 2x2’s on Siptah bothers me. I won’t do it unless I’m desperate or the building is decayed.

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I played PVP with two of my work associates for a few months. They had no clue what they were doing and built this massive square building on noob river, then stayed there forever.
When I tried to get them to move upriver into the map, they said, "Why? We like it here. " This was a new PVP server so everyone was starting out the same.
They had a bad habit of killing low level players and it made me mad. One day a new player was snooping around one of our shrines and stole an alligator head. It was hilarious to me, and I told him it was not a big deal, but my “friend” proceeded to grief him after I said we would not.
Needless to say, I left that clan and did not look back.
To me it is just another form of bullying, even if it is just a game, and shows insight into peoples RL failings.

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You definitely had the right mentality there JJ. And your decision to leave a clan of people you know in real life must not have been easy, but clearly it was the right choice. :innocent:

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True, other than that what can a player gain from an action like that? I don’t say that some players do not “hide” under a tier one crappie square until they are ready to unleash a terror in the server, yet fighting others with really low level or gear is a bit low.
@JJDancer the story you said was exactly what I got years ago visiting official pvp servers. What really made me upset in one specific server however was not this. Back then aloe soup was THE recipe you MUST had. So one player placed about one hundred archers on foundations around the recipe ruin, making the recipe obtain mission, suicide mission :man_shrugging:.
Other players were building really close to the werewolve that you gain the midnight alchemist vanishing his spawn. Others were blocking Set religion for people not to learn this religion easy. Block this, block that, block the other was the mentality on official pvp servers back then. This was my exact reason I went to private pvp. Back then however a lot of pvp admins were “abusing” the power they had. For me however was OK, because the reason I was participating in pvp servers was the thrill to go back to my house alive and learn more secrets of the game, yes pvp players were more chatty than pve players . Don’t forget that back then we could escape the fights better naked, so building full encumbrance was my build all the time, without armor based attribute build. I see however that the mentality is changed, that’s a progress I guess :man_shrugging:.

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Thank you for recognizing the honor among us.

Don’t you play PS4? This is very much a part of PlayStation Culture, and why it seems to be much less toxic on PvP there.

How you’re proposing to play is the opposite of how PC PVP has recently become “acculturated.” Over time it has become much less toxic, with a courtesy/honor-based ruleset governing how new players are treated. In other words, PC has moved more to how PS4 is and shall be.

I’m not saying it’s not a valid way to play, but you won’t become a beloved figure on PvP servers by killing or encouraging the killing of noobs. It usually draws heat, which is fine, when you raid sandstone that is deliberately sandstone.

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But that is why the ToS had to come out. Because people won’t/can’t play right and then blame the game for allowing them to do these sorts of things. So FC had to do something but wanted to limit the impact of their action towards the players that are playing right.

Before this gets back into the junk stuff again…to the general audience.
YES THERE IS A RIGHT WAY TO PLAY! Don’t defend bad ethics with ideas centered on freedom. Freedom is a fickle thing and requires constant dilligence of self restraint and acceptance of responsiblity. If you can’t or won’t, you don’t deserve it.

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Generally speaking, unless a clan has made themselves a nuisance or has shown that they’re incredibly aggressive, we leave T1 (and sometimes T2) structures alone. Generally speaking, they don’t have anything worth our time except maybe some decent legendaries that they gleaned off a lucky 3-skull box. However, this has nothing to do with “honor” or the like. It’s mostly risk-vs-reward. Like, yes, we can raid 2x2 shacks on the river, but why would we? There’s no benefit to it aside from appearing on someone else’s event log and/or pushing players off the server/game. Conan excels at delivering quality raid content, but you gotta let someone build up enough to be worth raiding.

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Oh gawd. PC is more toxic?

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The problem there is that the honor system has been exploited and there are some folks out that that use noob river as storage areas and encasulate a T3 build in a T1 shell knowing the honor system will overlook the ‘stupid noob base’

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Although PSNs are dime-a-dozen, most people do care about their actual Handles. Mine has existed since PS3 days. Therefore there’s nobility built into the system: you want credit for a great playstyle, so you act with generosity. This then gets exploited in the Cadbury Cream Egg scenario you mentioned.

The PC world started out as flagrantly brutal. Rusters and ARKers vs the rest of us unskilled barbarinos. It was mayhem, and it was beautiful. But after a certain point of Evolution, the bullies came out. The code was the bullies kill, and the bullies allow certain people to exist. It became unpleasant.

It also meant the annihilation of every noob for fun and profit. The language via in-game mic was horrific too. I won’t belabor the point but it’s taken a long time to get to this more rules-based system on the PC.

What is interesting is that most players care about their Steam Profiles. For instance, after I migrated over from the PS4 for Conan, I had to establish a Steam Account. That’s why my Steam Date coincides with my Conan Purchase Date. It matters when players look me up. HOWEVER, some other players like the idea of partial Heel status. A player like that (I commonly refer to him as my Captain) pairs well with the slimey diplomat I can be. After all, we just want their Lucky Charms. :wink:

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I tend to agree. Play how you like… that’s the beauty of the game.

It’s been my experience both as a n00b and in a mature clan that there are enough of both kinds to make it interesting. 1st week or so in a populated PvP server you’re very likely to be gifted advanced weapons, mounts, and armor and have your life spared 2 out 5 encounters. Sure it’s nice… but I’ve always learned more by having my metal tested regardless of my level. And it’s not all that different either… I mean, I know from experience that I can sometimes beat a mounted attacker - me being naked with iron weapons - and what a great feeling! Not to mention the techniques that worked in that situation stick with you longer and stronger - so, great for learning too.

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It’s not so much honor as much as it is risk v reward. And again, I have no issues wiping a sandstone base if the clan that owns it makes themselves known. My map is filled with dozens of custom markers for every base that I find, from a 2x2 grind shack to the honeycombed bubble base. If someone appears in my event log, first thing I do is find out where they are. (This is assuming that the alphas haven’t already taken care of it)

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I cannot agree more, I speak exactly the same all these years criticizing this behavior. I don’t even agree on total wipes, I find them very wrong. Total wipes push players to the past to leave the server and then complains arrive for empty servers :person_facepalming:t3:. This however was the mentality, I provoked a lot this bad behavior here in the past. Every action has results, others are good others are bad. The greatest question, did we learned from our mistakes? Only time will tell. Yet I believe that no matter the players, the company’s actions are the one that lead the way to the players. They have a fair share of responsibility in this part. It is more on them to fix it than as, it always was and always be. Let’s hope for the best, but again, I am really happy for you guys, Bravo.

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Sorry for the slow reply I think I’m in a different time zone from most of you.

Well. That was much less popular than I anticipated :grimacing: I totally understand everyone’s points. I really do. But hear me out.

People play games to have fun. People choose PVP games, or in this case PVP mode, because they find it fun to “fight” other players. It’s not real fighting, it’s a game. I think it’s not unreasonable to assume that anyone you meet who has chosen to wash up on a PVP server wants to fight.

What I am suggesting is not harassing or curb-stomping new players into dust when they’re learning to build. It’s just: fight people when you see them. If they’re comparable level to you or at a similar tech level, raid them. Use whatever you’ve got. Blow in their door and take some stuff. It’s all easy come easy go at lower levels. Even if they’re a new player, this is how they learn that. That’s how they learn not to fret when they lose their iron ore and brimstone. They learn to get up and get back in the fight.

When you log in to play Halo or PUBG or whatever for the first time, you don’t expect people to leave you alone because you’re new. Fighting the other players in a PVP game is not “griefing.”

What I’m trying to say here is that this is just a game, it’s not a big deal. Treating new players with kid gloves has created a culture where people build up unmolested, and then suddenly when they’re level 60 and fat with loot they’re “fair game” and they wake up one morning to their base erased and everything gone. No wonder people quit PVP all the time. Not to mention psychopathic vet players who take advantage of the honour code to win, as @erjoh mentioned.

My theory is however that if they were actually PVPing the whole time, fighting one another and vets at all stages, then they’d be more resilient and stick around longer. Plus the game would be more fun. I’d also like to point out again that the game has tools for raiding at all stages of the game built in. I think what I am suggesting is probably PVP as the devs intended. New players would learn and vets would suppress one another at every stage.

I understand that the “no raiding new players or sandstone” rule has come from a place of respect and nurturing. But the effect hasn’t been good for PVP. It’s stagnated it and led to the weird extremism we now have that seems less fun for everyone. People love to blame the devs for perceived problems but the community has done this, I’m pretty sure.

@Barnes yes I play on PS but I used to play on xbox. It was just as prevalent there.

Special note to @JJDancer, while what you said was noble and your friends were acting like jerks, fighting someone in a PVP video game, as the game intended, is not bullying. It certainly doesn’t mean someone is a bully in real life. They may have been griefing, but what I am suggesting here is not that.

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@Firecrow.
That’s exactly the reason I suggest nude transferring from pve to pvp, when you arrive in the pvp server, fight, no remorse for nobody, pure pvp fun from the very first minute. If a player lvl 60 wants to build sandstone it’s his issue not yours, simple as that.

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