Some official servers should have lower clan sizes

I think there should be servers for lower clan sizes. There are many 10 man clans crowding out servers right now.

I’ve been on three servers lately and had to leave because I’m in a queue of 8+ waiting to get on. 2 days ago it was a server of 4-8 players, for weeks it’s been dead, today I’m queuing!

These 10 men clans look to wipe servers, which is fine, but only succeed in disrupting servers, to the detriment of the smaller clans, to accommodate another battle with the same 4 or 5 big clans they’ve been fighting against on other servers.

I’ve also noted the names of the players in one of these big clans and it was19 players strong swapping places when other players can’t get online that day to keep the clan at 10 players at all times. Well that’s cool, no problems there but it really only induces bully tactics. How many YouTube videos have I watched where I see 4 guys chasing down 1 player then cutting away to see another 4 guys chasing down 1 player (don’t get me wrong I also see some awesome videos of clan v clan, Exiled Pheonix for example).

I have a 5 man clan and it’s impossible to play against a 10 man clan. At best it’s 1v2, sometimes, when my clan can’t get on due to life commitments (work, children, holidays, family time, etc) it’s 1v10. Really!

I think a sever with 5 man clans would work and give players (especially new players) a chance to learn the game, the fighting and defending a base. I would also encourage a larger player base. Sure these 10 men clans can join with lower numbers but at least my clan has a shot at defending and/or defeating someone.

There could be an opportunity for two 5 man clans to join together and join a 10 man server to experience the bigger fights, it’s not like these servers would die, it would open up another experience for smaller clans.

What do you think?


I think just get rid of clans all together and create alliances that affect access/ aggro potentials.

the problem with you limiting clan size is that it doesn’t matter if it’s 1x10 person clan or 2x5 person clan. They are still coming on, still working as an organized unit, still aimed to wipe the server.


By that logic you could bring in 2 x 10 man clans to wipe your 5 man clan, or 3… or 4 then you can’t even log on to the server and your base is in ruins.

Hmm, now there’s a thought…

It’s not about reducing the clan sizes per se, but more to do with allowing a small clan to defend itself. I know of a 3 man clan having to defend against a 10 man clan on Exile Lands with Siptah gear and weapons. How op do these clans need to be?

As a game and the rules of a game numbers mean a lot. If a soccer team of 11 men played they only play verses 11, you don’t see 11 v 22. To further enforce the ‘fairness’ of the game the teams are put into leagues so the top teams are not overwhelming the lower teams. You’re favourite team is not playing your Sunday league team. But this is what is happening on Conan at the moment.

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Yep and the issue with this game’s PVP. Since there is not user ranking systems, you can always get into a situation where a vet will be in the same server as a noob. Mix that with the idea that numbers matter significantly and no regulation against toxic playstyles, and you come to the inevitable conclusion I did. PVP on officials is full of toxicity. Even if you do have some decent time on it, someone will get butthurt and reach out to get the server wipers crews in and whatever dynamics have been established will vanish.


They do.

Have you ever wondered why its only the smaller clans being targeted? They would target each other out of paranoia if they weren’t already colluding. Its not because of some unsportsman thing of too afraid of attacking someone who can damage you back. PVPers will attack larger groups just to get an advantage.

See… you’re not even seeing just a single 10 man clan, or two 10 man clans, but several. If they aren’t actively fighting or plotting against each other. They’ve made agreements or are outside of game friends (or at least the leadership is).

This is why smaller clans get absolutely trounced the moment they try to do anything.

If you reduced the clan size to 5, you would simply spread people out and make it harder to track, but they’re still in their discord. You can make it 3 man and it just gets worse. Even if you restrict it to solo only you’re still dealing with 10-30 people, the only reason it looks like just 10 is because they don’t login all at the same time.

Because the 3 man clan was outplayed by the virtue of the leader only bringing 2 friends. This sounds unfair. But its about as unfair as attacking someone who has less gear. And about as unfair as attacking someone who lets say has double the hours played, but didn’t ‘get it’ and isn’t great at the game. They might have more time, more gear, but if you’re ‘better’ you have an unfair advantage of simply adapting to the game. But we don’t like to consider that unfair because we have our preconceived notions of what fair is. But we’re talking about PVP in a multiplayer environment. To which there is three aspects that ensure your success and failure.

First you have What you Know. What you know is commonly called player skill. This is your experience and time played in the game. Your knowledge of the mechanics, and your ability to use your character in a confrontation effectively. Many think this is all you should ever need. If you were playing checkers or chess or some other similar thing. Maybe. But we’re PVPing here. Lacking player skill means that you can have great gear, and be part of a large team, but you’re a third leg, not pulling your weight. Having great player skill however means you can beat those with better gear and sometimes you equal more than a single opponent in group fights.

Second you have What you Have. This is the character you play. Their feats, their experience points, their levels, their gear, and their recipes. This is the sum of all of the progress you have made in the game and on the character you play. The tangible things that are easily measured and stored in a database. Lacking gear or levels means you can lose to an equally skilled player. Having better gear gives an advantage to the same.

Finally you have Who you Know. This is the most overlooked aspect and arguably the most important. This is your ability to work with others, your ability to lead or follow, and your personal network of people you know that you can call in as allies. That last one happens to be people you know in the community, people you know on the servers you play on, people in allied clans, people in your own clans, and people you know in real life that play the game too. Lacking the number of people needed in a confrontation means you could be overwhelmed. While the inverse means you have an easier time.

I want to talk about that last one. It wasn’t too uncommon when a new game came out, that while I was in the Army sometimes soldiers from my platoon and others in the company would actually play that together. We’re talking about 10-30 people. And since we all work the same hours in the same organization we could frequently login all at the same time. Back then we played Battlefield 2142 and Age of Conan and let me tell you, the poor randoms we encountered had a rough time.

Now how is it someone is going to tell a dozen or more soldiers in the same unit cannot play together? You’re going to tell me a group of players who are like brothers and train for life and death situations can’t blow off steam and play a video game somewhere because of some silly notion of fairness?

It goes further. I have many friends whom I game with who’ve I’ve played with for the better part of several decades. My best friend and I have gamed since the mid 1980s. I have other friends who I played with since Highschool for nearly 30 years. And I still keep up with people I knew in the military for nearly 20 years. These people I can call in for many of these video games and our level of coordination and numbers make it extremely hard to beat.

However these are relationships we have fostered for decades. It makes even the 8,000 hour hardcore CE player look brief. I have the ability to make friends, coordinate, and execute plans and goals requiring a dozen or so players, an ability that took literal decades, not hours, days, or weeks, and why should that be limited?

I mean even at the very basic of telling friends they can’t play together is asinine to begin with.

I’m not going to tell you that you need to join a 10 man clan. You want autonomy, I understand that. I even respect that. But if you have a 3 man clan and are facing 10 man clans (meaning you’re fighting against a coordinate (or somewhat coordinated) team of multiple clans, then you’re going to need to build up your network of allies. You don’t need to be friends. You just need to be able to work together.

If you lack the social skills, charisma, too stubborn to follow directions on occasion, and lack the fortitude to lead… well… you are going to have to accept the idea you will likely lose more than not to those who do. Even if you have better gear, even if you have better skill then individuals. In games like Conan Exiles, allied groups are more than the sum of their parts.

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I’m not talking about skill levels here. Yes I can play with my 3-5 friends, build up the clan to 10 men, kick those who can not fight, get in new players, find they don’t get on, kick them and find new players, one is going on holiday next week so I need to recruit a new member, now I’m rotating players, the other clans are getting stronger so I start to build a more skilled clan, kick more, recruit more…now I’m not playing with my friends any more.

The argument for smaller clans is just that, the most skilled players wouldn’t be able to take out a 10 man clan solo. The clan that was 3 players had hours in the game, could tell the enemy was wearing body vaulted Siptah gear and weapons from the time you could server transfer.

It’s just unplayable at the moment, any server that hits 8+ players is going to attract the top clans and is only a matter of time before you can’t log in due to queuing.

To help new clans we are having friendly pvp so the new players can increase their skill levels. Then pop, 40/40 server.

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Why wouldn’t you be playing with friends anymore? As I said, I’ve been playing with the same people for 10, 20, 30, and close to 40 years across many platforms and generations. You don’t have to give up playing with friends at all.

This is the nature of open servers. This isn’t even new to CE. Like I said, I was doing this in BF2142 in 2007. Hell even in MW3 (the real MW3, MechWarrior 3) in 1999.

So you’re for the 10 man clan servers?

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I believe the setting is irrelevant.

If I have friends on a server, I’m not going to fight them just because they are in another clan as long as their is strangers and outsiders to fight. Which means people in the smaller groups are going to get pushed off.

I understand your frustration with being followed due to population shifts. Groups go where the numbers are. But its not anything personal. They don’t know who you are. And no offense meant but they don’t exactly care. You’re a number and a target, content in the game to be played with.

I’m not saying its right or wrong, I’m just explaining that it happens.

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You really can’t control people from organizing in a game like this. However if the game was made to be more realistic or defender oriented a great castle of a base built by a smaller clan should be near impossible to take down without attacking players committing to a very long and difficult siege. Small clans with decent fortifications should be able to hold off hordes. The problem though is impulsive aggressive 20 something year olds want easy raids and PvP clips to talk ■■■■ and harass each other with in discord or other media. Then there’s try hard streamers who want to get e famous for $$ and also cry that raiding is too hard so they and all their friends exploit/cheese to make propaganda content for their fragile egos. The pvp game is a mess because of balance issues and unmitigated exploits. Large groups of players ruining it for smaller groups of casual players is just a side effect.

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I know what happens too. Clans are just having fun. I just feel it would be easier on smaller clans it the clan sizes were reduced.

It works with other games. Chess; 1v1, 16 pieces each. Football; 11v11, 1 football. Volleyball; 6v6 same size court on each side.

I can’t even think of a game that doesn’t play with the same rules as the other team.

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I don’t know how you’d get what you want without going to a regulated private server.

Imagine if in Chess you went to 1v1 and then a second and a third player added pieces to the board and you had the choice of playing and losing, or just walking away.

Or in Football you line up your 11 man team against another, and a second a third team line up behind the line of scrimmage. Same thing in Volleyball or whatever.

That’s how open servers work. You can reduce the team sizes, but the people are still working together. You’re not just fighting 10 man clans, you’re fighting groups of clans working against you. And here’s the insidious part. You don’t see them online at the same time. More numbers means more coverage, quicker reactions to threats across the 24 hour day.

When I played Archeage, the raid size was 50 players. The guild I was in had over 300 members that could be online at the same time. Do you honestly think we only brought one raid to a world boss engagement against other players? No… we used 3-4 raids and rolled people. There was even a time when we coordinated with other guilds to have over 500 members roll over the entire opposing faction (it had factions like WoW).

So right now you could be fighting 25 players across 3 clans. If the clan limit was reduced to 5 players, you’d be fighting 5-6 clans of the same players. What I have been trying to explain to you is your issues will NOT be alleviated by reducing clan sizes.

Your issue is people talking in discord, on social media, texting on their phones, or like we used to do in the old Everquest days, landline phones even. Though I’m certain that last one isn’t used as much these days.

The part most utilized is thw sharing of named bs and armorers. If we had no coan system, and instwad institued an ally sysyem with limit and cooldowns when wanting to swap to new allances, it would help. Make alliances where you can open your doors and chests to an ally, but lock crafting stations and vaults. And reduce friendly fire if allied, along with follower aggro.

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Here is a tactic I’ve used.

A clan came to the server I was playing on, 5 or 6 players. They came on with 1800 glitched bombs and spent nearly 2 weeks bombing us (they had no base). We defended for the whole period until a clan came on and found their bodyvaults and that stopped them from returning to our base.

We found that glitching clan’s server so went to it, levelled up, made a few hundred bombs, built a base and got attacked immediantly. Well, fair enough.

But I knew better. I emptied my base, bodyvaulted our loot at raid time and my clan went on a naked bombing campaign.

You see, all I had to do was wait.

So I waited.

You know what I waited for?

I waited for a couple of 10 men clans to join the server so the glitching clan had to face them.

And we watched them get wiped.

Conan is survive, build and dominate. Right now we have 10 men clans dominating and if you’re not 10 men you won’t survive.

Time for Funcom to even the playing field or lose it’s player base. It’s losing me, slowly.

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To add to what Tamien has said - the reason clan size is irrelevant is that there is no way to control people colluding unless a GM is actively logged on 24x7 and observing everything that happens on the server, and even then it doesn’t really work.

You see this in every game that has destructive PvP (ARK, Rust, etc.). There will always be people who are willing to cheat by colluding with other clans. Even if the ToC expressly states that clans in PvP will get banned if they collude in any way, they will still do it, and it’s basically impossible to prove unless GM is constantly watching the map and observing clans working together in PvP (and again, even then it doesn’t really work).

It’s entirely possible for a GM to falsely accuse people of colluding. Let’s say two clans both plan to attack a 3rd clan on the same day (because both of the attacking clans have done enough scouting to know when the 3rd clan is vulnerable). If they attack from different directions they could both start their attack at the same time without even knowing that the other is also going to attack. Then, there they are, already in the middle of attacking, when they suddenly notice each other. Now both of the attacking clans make the decision to avoid attacking each other because they want to avoid getting entangled in having two fights at the same time. They haven’t truly colluded, they didn’t have any communications or plans in advance, they’re both just doing something smart and avoiding exposing themselves to an extra, possibly losing, battle.

So now imagine you’re the GM watching this happen. You don’t have any evidence of communication or cooperation before the battle started. They’re not talking to each other in public chat, plus you’re monitoring both of their clan chats and you see that they’re both saying the same thing, “We don’t want a second fight, don’t attack those other guys and maybe they won’t attack us either”. But the thing is, they might be communicating somewhere else, like in Discord, their clan chat in the game might be deliberate fake chatter to fool you. Even if you know these two clans have a history of collaborating and you suspect them of cheating outside of the game, you can’t prove it, so you can’t ban them based on what you’re seeing inside the game. You’re being paid specifically to catch people collaborating and cheating, and you still can’t do it. You’re watching them in real time, with FunCom spending money to play you to watch them, and you still can’t find any evidence to ban them.

This is why games with fully destructive PvP (ARK, Rust, Conan, etc.) will always be bad and will always be overrun with cheaters. There’s waaaay too much incentive to cheat (no one wants to lose hundreds of hours of work in the game) and it’s too hard (and too expensive) to catch them. No matter how much any of us might want it, there’s no good way to monitor PvP in Conan to be sure that the cheaters are always banned (and of course to also make sure that innocent people don’t get banned).

This is all true regardless of clan size. If you’re going to play a game that has fully destructive PvP, the clan size doesn’t matter. If you want to have a 100% honest clan then, in addition to being very good at the game you also have to be good at maintaining your clan size to be full strength at all times which means working hard at the social aspect of the game. You will never, ever be able to say, “Hey, let’s just have the five of us be a clan and not ever talk to anyone else”.

This is true regardles so of the tribe size limit. For example, ARK has long had “small tribe” servers (if I remember correctly, I think the tribe size is 3), and those servers are wretched hives of scum and villainy, with collaborating and cheating being the norm. It’s virtually impossible for honest player to win on those small tribe servers.

To recap: In a game with fully destructive PvP, tribe size doesn’t matter.

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I was thinking about something along those lines.

We’re not even sure the situations being brought by the OP and others are actually even 10 man clans. For example on the server that I played Archeage on, I was able to convince enemy guilds that we had 3,000+ members. We had around 300 members, but I doctored a screenshot and posted in the forums for that server’s section showing us with ~3,1000.

The reason this worked is because there was a running idea that we were a zerg guild. We could drop two or three full 50 man raids at a specific location in a few minutes. Mostly because we were coordinated heavily on discord, when the leader said go to X, everyone dropped what they were doing and went there.

But instead of explaining that. I decided to play on the accusations and fears and doctored a screenshot to show 10x the number we actually had on our guild page. While many were not believing the screenshot was real, it was hard to tell exactly how many played on a server (it was a MMORPG). But many more believed it and we had much much less aggression from enemy guilds going forward, meaning many had simply given up or even quit the server or game.

Its very easy to think an enemy force has way more people in it than it does when they are heavily coordinated. If you are encountering 4-5 people, and they seem to just pop up on you no matter where you go or when, it can feel like more.

If several 4-5 man clans are colluding their efforts, it can feel like 10 man clans are just running over everything as well. A few people working together can be a force multiplier and can be very much more effective than simply trying to zerg.

A handful of friends is much more effective than a dozen strangers. Strangers don’t have incentive to drop what they are doing for someone else. Strangers don’t have the incentive to login at specific times.

This is why people don’t like to expand their clans by inviting randoms. There’s little connection. And its why I can understand that side’s frustration in this issue. However you are correct here:

You do have to socialize in PVP. You can’t treat everyone as an obstacle. You have to chat, and get diplomatic. For every clan that you get to know is a potential threat averted. People are less likely to attack those they like to chat with. You don’t even have to make friends with them. Sometimes you simply have to be friendly.

I mean its the frontier or colonial mindset. You’re nice to everyone you meet so that you don’t appear to be a threat and thus you don’t have yet another enemy in a lawless undeveloped land.

It also helps not to take attacks on your base personally. PVP is PVP, your base is game content. Not just for you to enjoy but for everyone on the server when they try to loot it. When you have that mindset, sometimes enemies can turn into potential allies. I can’t count how many times where I’ve actually befriended enemies. Even to the point in some games where my own guild was wondering if I was a spy. Where as I was just trying to organized some decent PVP. I mean why not schedule fights with a potential enemy? PVP is why we choose to play on a PVP server, why not embrace it instead of avoid it?

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You all talk about collusion, I’m not talking about that. Collude all you like.

A 10 man clan won’t be able to take on 3 x 10 men clans colluding as such a 3 man clan can’t take on a 10 man clan collusion or no collusion.

Clan size matters, 2x3 men clans allying with each other is just a 6 man clan. Don’t be fooled.

2x 10 men clans are just 20 men clans.

Cheaters and colluders are always going to cheat and collude. I doesn’t mean you have to keep the clan size high on servers. I could get 40 players to sit on a server all day and raid any clan I wanted to.


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So… what you’re basically saying is that you’re fine with cheating and colluding, you just want the cheaters and colluders to be broken up into smaller groups. Instead of being attacked by one 10-person clan you can get attacked by 3x3-person clans and that’s going to fix the problem because… reasons.

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This is pretty much my point. No matter what the theoretical clan size is, the real clan size is how many people are sharing a private discord server that no one else knows about.

This happened in ARK also. There were many tribes of 10-20 people that didn’t like competing against the mega-tribes on the main cluster, so instead they just joined the small tribes servers as a bunch of “independent” 3-person tribes that actually colluded on their private discord servers. It wasn’t so much that they disliked cheating, they just disliked that bigger groups were cheating more effectively, so they decided to move to a server where they could be the winning cheaters instead of losing to other cheaters.

The benefits of a smaller clan size only look good on paper. The truth, the reality of the situation no matter how much you or I might dislike it (and believe me I dislike it too) is that clan size doesn’t actually matter, it’s just an illusion.

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Cheating, no. Absolutely not. Colluding is not such an issue as cheating is. An alliance is basically 2 clans colluding, is it not?