The gaps left to fill with unwield+wield gone:

,
  • I agree with all suggested points (1, 2 & 3).
  • I agree with suggestion 1
  • I agree with suggestion 2
  • I agree with suggestion 3
  • I agree with suggestion 1 and 2
  • I agree with suggestion 1 and 3
  • I disagree with all the suggestions.

0 voters

Hello Funcom.

The majority of people who are unhappy about the loss of unwielding to stop animations are unhappy because of the loss of 3 abilities in combat afforded to them by animation canceling. So either please bring unwield+wield back, OR… Please address these pieces of combat that are now absent because unwield+wield is gone:

  1. Mobility/Weaving: Please consider going over the pacing of weapon swings of the 2h weapons, especially the recovery times of their first attacks, so that the first attack doesn’t leave you rooted in place for multiple seconds. May also be necessary for some 1h weapons, I’m not sure. I think most of those already have very good pacing in their attacks.

  2. Feinting: Please restore the capacity to make false attacks and pull back from them. While this has little value in pve, it added a layer of complexity to pvp.

  3. Withdrawing Attacks: Please add the ability to stop a swing you have started, but not after you’re far into the swing. Let it deal no damage and recover much faster than if you had completed the swing. Let this same feature cancel a future attack in your combo if the ‘cancel’ period has passed.

Bonus: Make it possible to exit/cancel out of ALL attacks, even special ones. For special attacks, you may shorten the window of time severely for getting in or getting out, but make it possible so that even kicks, finishers and other special attacks can be used as feints. Maybe even sprint attacks?

Bonus 2: Agility is a mostly irrelevant attribute. Change agility so that it not only affects coming out of dodge rolls, but also coming out of attacks. This would make it very relevant again and inspire new builds. Do not detract anything from it, simply add this functionality.

To add on to Bonus 2:

Some Comments:

#1 is just a reminder that without unwield+wield’s bandaid solution, the clunky animations of several weapons need to be revisited and adjusted. #2 and #3 could be merged into a single feature: the ability to stop an attack early before it ends the period of needing to complete the swing arc.

The bonus features aren’t absolutely necessary, but I think they would complete the package.

Some have also asked for parrying and blocking, and that’s fine. But before we add new features, I’d like to have our old abilities restored in some form. Alternatively, allow the unwield and wield again and impose restrictions for problematic weapon combinations or weapon-select combinations.

5 Likes

Thanks for making a poll about this :slight_smile:

Look. I voted for the first option. I agree with the 3 options.
But so, as much as funcom has failed in the past, somehow I believe they have something in mind this time, I don’t know.

They’ve been doing major updates more often than before, maybe they’re really looking to save and leveraget the game.

If I’m right, probably some of your suggestions are probably being put into practice, because the combat as it really is, with the animations as they are, is not working well in PvP.

I would just like to make an addendum:
In the last Dev Stream, it was mentioned about balancing pvp, where they didn’t want the enemy player to be able to instakill and things like that, as this doesn’t allow counter-play.
The truth is that it is still possible and easy to Instakill with the mounted combat.
(when I say instakill, I say against an opponent with 50 vitality + 1,000 armor).
I think that it should also be revised.

Ah. i was forgetting about the healing system… it’s not working for pvp too.
I liked the potion animation as well as it being the core healing source, but it’s too damn slow to heal yourself and you get a cripple effect while doing it.
Besides that, you can’t carry a lot of potions as we did with herbal tea + meat in the past.
So, i don’t think it would be unbalanced if potions could be used while running or at least at normal walk speed.

I appreciate that you pointed this out, but I would recommend you make your own suggestion thread and focus on those issues there w/ any supporting evidence you have.

In this topic, I’m focusing on the loss of animation canceling and its consequences, nothing else. I don’t want the convo muddled by other topics because it will split divide up attention. If devs read this, they will know its all relevant to the main topic and will be able to cross-reference info without mixed signals.

As it stands, just throwing our thoughts around different topics in a disorganized way is going to achieve nothing. But if we focus on a core issue in each topic, the points will be clear and give us a higher chance of getting changes we’ll actually want.

Might want to explain more of what you mean by this one. It sounds like you want to cancel exploit again, which isn’t coming back.

Every attack has an exit point already, with the exception of finishing moves. And I definitely don’t agree that a finishing move should have zero consequences (animation cancelling exploiting was also this, zero consequences for doing anything).

2 Likes

First of all, thank you for taking this kind of approach to the topic, this has way more feedback than “we want our exploit back”.

I voted for 1 and 2 because i agree that the current animations are clunky and most of them need a revision. and as you said, the 2 and 3 can be the same ability to feint would do the same to stop the attack.

Would be nice to have faster reactions and item usage by increasing this stat, but if that happens i would suggest to remove the armor bonus from it and give it to Survivability.

2 Likes

refer to point 3

Now that is an excellent idea. It makes more sense anyways, since armor helps you survive.

Creative, and a good idea overall. It would breathe new life into both attributes, really. But before that idea grows too much, I’ll suggest you put it in a separate topic if you have more thoughts on it. Still want to focus on the core points above for now. Thank you!

The post needs more attention.

I thought I’d give a better answer than ‘refer to point 3’

Not true, actually. Not all finishing moves lack exit points, and some non-finishing moves do lack exit points. There is an uneven distribution there. I know for a fact that the 2h sword’s downward chop attack has zero exit points, for example. If you are stuck once the blade comes down, that’s fine, but I would prefer if you could still exit it like 200 to 300 milliseconds into the attack before the blade comes down.

As for this,

The consequences are generally stamina cost, but if you recall what I wronte in point #3 it’s not about avoiding consequences, but about changing your mind early before the swing itself has begun. Doing so would still cost you stamina and time, and would negate the threat of your own attack in the process, but you would pay less of a cost by recognizing that you’re making a mistake and pulling out of it.

I don’t get this “you are not allowed to make any mistakes and you will be punished for trying to correct them” mentality. Backing off from a bad move is common sense, it should be punished less than actually making the bad move, not punished more.

If the fear is just that it could be exploitable, then just properly define the limits of when you are able to withdraw and when you get locked in so that even a latency buffer won’t cause a client’s game to misinterpret the attack.

Option 2 and 3 are very similar. Withdrawing an attack early or feinting (shouldn’t that be withdrawing an attack early?)

Either option, they should cost the player both a bit time and resources, while not doing damage as you mentioned. As stated, also if stopped early enough or you pay the full penalty of doing an action you did not want to.

If they cancel this way, I think people would be fine with since you are not getting an extra action on top of the previous one you animation cancel mid-stream. Here you stopped an action from performing. You still lose the top of the action and your next action, whatever it is will start from the point you start it. No overlapping of actions. Any cancelled action must not hurt the opponent since as noted it was cancelled. Otherwise, we revert back to exploit issue.

Fixing the pacing of the actions to make combat more smooth would be fine with me. Caveat is two handers while doing more damage, must remain a slower weapon in comparison even it causes the character feels a bit paused. 2 handed maul for example should not be a quick weapon. They probably should have a bit of a bonus of debuff compared to a one-hander types.

Personally, I think you should put together thoughts what each weapon does, speed, etc. to find a good balance for all weapons.

Nope, the main reason the canceling needs to be gone is because of the cause and effects of each attack. the animation is part of the power of the weapon. If you are able to hit someone like a truck then you should be locked into the animation that allows that type of damage.
This is why some weapons will ALWAYS be more powerful than another. (before this patch) You being able to hit someone hard and fast, made no sense. you being able to attack and miss, and not be punished HEAVILY made no sense.
Does cancelling have a mechanic(s) that you think gives an edge to combat styles? more complex?
Absolutely NOT, Same goes for auto aim, and lock on, and auto facing. these are handicaps that shouldnt be in the game.
Auto Cancel didnt add complexity it took it away, removing an effect of punishment, removing patience, removing weapons that are not as effective, infact alot of the NERFs and balancing issues in the past would of been fixed with this patch. they didnt need to nerf damage, they needed weapons to act as they are. they needed A B C D E F G. it shouldnt be A B C A B C D E A B C so on.

But hey, if enough morons run the world, youll get your way instead of doing it the right way.
Continue to use the internet of infinite information, by creating memes, and looking up words you didnt know at the time. instead of just knowing them before hand. You guys always win. MOB RULE!
woot

People complained about the “Poke&Roll” META. With the changes to animation canceling, the only way to cancel animations now is to roll. So it is poke, poke, roll, poke roll, poke poke poke, roll etc.

Guess what? We have this exact META again. Well played!

Yes, remove that $hit.

“would have”
ty.

All weapons can use this roll. all of them.

Good ideas in here. I don’t really have anything to add to what has already been said but I agree that combat could become more fluid for the player.

Bump

I think that with all the recent changes funcom should pump the brakes a bit, take a look at each and every weapon, and rebalance and tune them all. I think it is way overdue

@funcom

This is a very valid & very serious suggestion to consider.

maybe add a stamina cost aswell to it once cancelled