The new arrows, some feedback

Conan Exiles General Discussion Feedback
21

“arrow weight concept”, “real life lore”, “plots with dragons in Conan comics” dont balance weapons or fix in game mechanics. People have to actually test how viable things are in game, on different scenarios, with different setups, you know… dedicate time testing and exposing their results/experiences here to see some solid changes.

The feature is already implemented, the time to talk about concept and lore is long past. Arrows/Archery are not balanced and need several changes, Lore wont change this. A player with the best archery setup, using the best arrows and bows still cant be on pair with a mid level player, using mid level gear and random stats. As I said before, “finding explanations in comics books” wont balance the game, bring me real in game data and we can talk.

22

Better communication this time around I feel like we can make progress rather than snapping back and forth. I agree that melee players have a huge edge over range players but that doesn’t mean an arrow that is heavier than a normal tipped arrow should be altered to give it an advantageous use. That in itself creates more unbalanced play. Why not ask to make the tips separate to use in a grenade like fashion to be attached when needed?

My biggest concern for games like these is once the lore is ignored how far/much will get ignored. I enjoy the immersion of the game certain aspects are missing, need to be improved, or in some cases removed. Especially the food and water consumption it is just insane how fast a character can starve or die of dehydration.

A lot of the material of the game is based, even loosely, on lore of the movies and comics. Again I totally agree with you on archery vs melee being unbalanced. Personally I rarely use the bows but I do carry one for the uses they do provide. The damages need to be increased to reflect their same material counterparts and in the long run the healing arrows using aloe would make more sense to the less versed in the lore. I mean aloe is a healing staple of the game.

23

I like the idea of the explosive tips to be added when you want, kinda like the buffs u add to weapons, but having a smaller less expensive explosive like a grenade something that would fit the concept of the game would be cool

24

We have flasks that so something similar. Just add in hardened case for crafting and done?

I know a player on the forum that runs an alchemic styled player since magic isn’t a thing yet. Max out his agility and, says it’s not resource efficient, and let’s loose gas with a mask on. It could give you more play options and not having large enough stacks you can just craft on site?

25

Hi everyone,

thanks for the feedback :slight_smile:
I will get some eyes on this and then get back with some input/thoughts from our side asap.

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26

cool, if i ever see you in game @Tascha i cook you some salted and spiced honeyed meat strips and a Desert Berry Juice :slight_smile:

btw if you can keep arrows in the game it is cool because sometimes you need to shoot an arrow at an aligator to make it turn against you, so that it doesn’t attack and kill someone else (or another thrall you are trying to get), plus sometimes there are lots of enemies nearby, and you can shoot a bone arrow at one of them, to make 1 or 2 Hyenas come at you, instead of all in one go.

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27

Thanks for the offer! :slight_smile:

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28

This was my point earlier about using arrows in a versatile way.

29

Aside from the weight issue and components needed to craft them, which sounds like they aren’t perfected yet, I think this arrow addition was a bad idea with the current bow mechanics. They should of launched the update to bows first before introducing these utility arrows. Not that they are a bad concept, but its essentially like Oscar said about introducing new weapon types into the game bringing imbalance to the rest of melee combat.

A few things about them and the old arrows

-arrows in general should not dictate damage by any large amount. At first they should start to scale a little to give higher levels a the damage increase they’d expect but at razor arrows it should shift from damage to utility. The various components for different arrows should change what their purpose is for, or offer small variations in exchange for different materials to give various regions the same access to end-game quality arrows.

-Light arrows should probably weigh less given their limited use, and should stick to enemies. This would help identify them in dark areas better but also could help as a sort of “focus target” system for groups.

-Explosive arrows seem alright, if they behave similar to how Joel said he wanted them to act as explosives that can be ignited by enemies if you are carrying them then it’d be perfect. The heavy weight balances the fact that they can be very abusive in combat.

-Poison arrows also seem ok given they are not practical in close range combat, excluding those with a gas mask of course.

-Tar arrow should behave like tar orb, plain and simple, but the concept seems dumb to be perfectly honest. There is little use in shooting tar at someone, even if the fire arrows worked. Tar orbs sort of make sense but how does an arrow spill that much tar anyways?

As far as Hardened steel, star metal, obsidian, dragonbone arrows, etc, I think these should be equal in use to razor with small variations in weight, concussive damage, and penetration. For example, star metal arrows should probably have more penetration than the rest given their high cost while hardened steel should deal only slightly more penetration than razor but the same damage. Ivory could simply be a variation of hardened steel for crafting purposes, but anything after razor should just be a small change in function but not necessarily the next tier. Ivory just being a variation of iron and fire, fire eventually being fixed to actually ignite tar, etc.

2 Likes
30

Bows should be remade to meet their counterparts. A slight reduction in damage even to make room for all the arrow choices. Like NinjaEd said giving ALL arrows more versatility with damage vs penetration vs function. With this concepts even PvP players, I play mainly PvP, can’t complain and I feel solo players can get an advantage with choices to meet a situation equally. Pure archers could make a real appearance in gameplay.

31

Hey everyone!

I poked Oscar and made sure he sees your discussion. He did not only read it with great interest, he also took the time to write down some feedback that I can share with all of you:

Lots of valuable feedback in this thread! Let me chime in with a few specific comments!

We originally envisioned Fire Arrows as an utilitarian type of arrow that would provide a bit of light while flying and enable fire interactions with the environment, but alas those elements were not implemented until this latest revision of “special arrows”. Now that that role is encompassed by Light Arrows and Explosive Arrows, we are turning fire arrows into enhanced iron arrows - which is really just a cosmetic change - which will remove any confusion about implied gameplay that was never there.

Explosive Arrows will detonate gas fields (including those created by Gas arrows) and oil fields. Fire Arrows won’t because they are only “fire” in name but not in function. The cost of explosive arrows is very high because it has to match their very high level of power. While it’s true the main function of explosives is PvP, it is not the only function. They do not have to be cost effective in every situation as long as they are in some situations.

Light Arrows are meant to act as a way to illuminate enviroments at a distance. They are not really damage tools. Perhaps this function is too niche, but we thought it would be a cool touch to add them and expand a little on the concept of “Alchemy is easy going Sorcery” (Science!). We considered other niche options too, like i.e. Whistling Arrows for signaling or Flare Arrows, but we feel that Light Arrows are a good start. Not every element of the game has to have a competitive or purely functional purpose and having toys/roleplay elements is also an important aspect of a sandbox enviroment. We will reduce the crafting cost of Light Arrows to better reflect their impact on gameplay.

Snake Arrows are an example of an arrow type that is too good for their cost. Not only were they basically free to make (which we addressed recently), but also due to the limited range of damage arrow progression encompases (most of the archery damage comes from the bow and attributes/perks, not from the arrows), they make equivalent damage to arrows much higher in the progression. We are looking at what we’ll do with Snake Arrows, but it’s likely that they will become mostly poison delivery tools and lose most of their physical damage potential. Bringing poison to a fight dramatically alters the fight’s dynamics and we feel Snake Arrows create that scenario without requiring any sort of sacrifice.

We will look into the issues with Blunted Arrows. There was a bit of a technical hurdle to bridge to fix those. You are right that the intention is that they’d act as ranged truncheons.

We hear your feedback about the worth versus the cost of special arrows and we are being cautious about tweaking those values as special arrows are extremely powerful compared with other aspects of gameplay of equivalent cost. This is something we will tweak over time as we obtain more data about the player dynamics around these items.

Special arrow weight is going to be reduced across the board. We want special arrows to be special and not something players spam instead of normal arrows, so certain elements are desirable there: i.e. limited stack sizes, high cost/power and weight. We see how we might have pushed this concept in too many ways at the same time, so we are going to reduce their weight.

On the topic of realism, we do want to create a sense of pseudo-realism in the game (because we feel it enhances the experience by making it easier to understand and relate to). Likewise, we are constantly striving to both deliver the evocative scenarios in Howard’s work and to honor them and show them to you in all their glory. We love the setting and we’d like more people to be exposed to it and appreciate the richness in it. Many aspects of the game’s design have been shaped by this way of thinking, including elements of cultural diversity, background lore and the connections to other authors of the time, concepts of the recurring rise and fall of ancient civilizations and even down to tropes and popular culture references from the stories, characters and movies. The reality of game design is that quite a few of aspects of the game have to be gamified to be any fun. It’s always a fine line to tread for us, but ultimately gameplay intentions and the overall gameplay experience will dominate discussions around realism.

3 Likes
32

I understand the idea behind the new arrows and I have been constantly using them, even with their downsides. I have even run dungeon in group to test the efficiency. The more I use the more I like them, but not because they are efficient (Poison arrow in groups is very efficient), because they feel different. This is the big problem…

  1. The 25 cap: is really not necessary. As long we keep one in the quickslot bar it doesnt matter how many stacks we have in the inventory . When we activate that arrow it will first consume the inventory stacks first, the quickslot will go last, so making them stack in small groups doesnt make them easier/harder to use, it only messes our inventory.

  2. Explosive arrows: damage is simply not worth it. It is high? A little yeah, still not as high as a high tier two handed sword, and you can swing it as many times as you want without spending Demon Blood, Crystal, Steelfire and Brimstone each arrow you shoot. Even the explosion damage if you shoot them in a poison smoke is not that high… its actually pretty low!! Between using two explosive arrows to kill a rocknose, I would rather use 4 flint arrows.

Honestly I think you devs have a big problem with this arrow as it stands, I dont think its possible make it PvE / PvP balaned when it uses Dragonpowder. Its a very, very costy material to craft and very hard to feel reasonable to spend on PvE content. Maybe you should go ahead and split this arrow in two. Make a Siege arrow, that use DragonPowder for PvP purposes and another one, PvE oriented, with more reasonable materials, like tar and brimstone, maybe volatile gland as suggested. Its definitely a cool arrow if it wasnt too expensive to make, and I doubt its possible find the perfect PvE/PvP balanced using such a high tier material.

  1. Light arrows: material cost is really doable, the damage is normal but nobody should be expecting the damage to exceed other arrows. These are not the main problem, it is the weight. 12.5 for a stack of 25 is too much. As you said its a specific (but dont get me wrong, REALLY FUN) arrow, you might or might not need, but the weight is not on pair with its limited use. I would rather carry a glowing stick and sword if I ever endanger myself fighting in the dark. Remember, archery builds usually have low encumbrance, 12.5 is more weight than the entire armor most archers are expected to use, you have to be mindful with those aspects. Archery/melee builds and gameplay are completely different!

  2. Some old but annoying problem with all arrows is the fact you can hit PvE playes with them… as unrealistic as it sounds, I think arrows should go through players in PvE mode. When you play in the back with a group of 3-4 other players its extremely hard hit something when everybody is packing together. Would it be realistic go through players/thralls? No… but its a game, and anyone playing a archer feels very frustrated when they miss 50% of their arrows hitting their friends back… at some point you might feel like you are not necessary and would be doing much better using a melee weapon.

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33

So drop the realism so your crap shots are worth something? This idea alone would well over balance archery in the game. Everyone would just spam arrows knowing that they can hit an enemy target with their friends standing there with a shield. It would be HUGE flaw and abuse from players would a be guarantee. Even if it is pve it sounds terrible.

34

How is that any different than how it works now? You can hit through a player using melee weapons.

35

It’s not intended that way and I don’t see it being done or have actually heard it a viable thing. I play PvP for the most part so it is impossible to use the flaw anyway. For pve however there is whole new beast of problems and abusive flaws that suggestion would be the next big hit.

36

Tacha, I would like to address something really important about archery/arrows I have noticed a long time ago, something passed unnoticed all this time. The more I play as archer the more I realize how close to balanced it is. Im a archer since AE day 1 so Im pretty familiar with the gameplay style. The REAL problem is not archery, its MELEE.

Think about it, archery needs some tweaks of course, but its quite difficult and always a challenge fight creatures. This is how its supposed to be, its a survival game and it should be dangerous. Archery requires you to constantly dodge, you have to aim, save stamina, run, avoid multiple enemies, you spend materials shooting arrows… its what you expect from a survival game.

Now take melee in the other hand… its just easy. I have 5 str and wear cosmetic armor and can still do better in melee! People with silent legion armor, two handed weapons just trade blows and kill everything in their way. I run the new dungeon with some friends and I was obviously the only archer. At the end of the run I had spent a TON materials (brought 200 snake arrows, 50 poison arrows, 25 light arrows and 20 explosive arrows) and my contribution to the group was definitely minimum (between low damage output from arrows, extremely lower shooting rate (compared to melee) and the fact 70% my arrows either missed or hit their backs… why would I play an archer, spend a LOT resources when melee is just a much more efficient and costs you no more than 20 ore bars to fully repair your gear?

They were in silent legion armor using two handed weapons and simply rushing / killing everything in the way with no preparation. Look at melee first when you consider balancing archery, the devs have trouble balancing archery / melee because that would mean buffing archery to a level they are not willing (with reason) to do. This is why archery has been a constant struggle to the team, they dont wanna buff it too much but there is a real abyss between melee / archery.

37

Fair enough on some parts especially damage ratio between the two. But your inability to communicate with your team for positioning shots and or moving to a flanking position with better firing leaves a lot on your part to make up. Damage and even resource ratios for materials used in repair/replacement yes but creating/applying a new mechanic to make up for your lack of abilities I see no sense in that. You already have a blessing for not damaging allies in pve why do need so much more when you can make up that difference on your own? Game play between PvP and pve would become monumentally different in ease of play. You stating it is a game flaw is more selfish than anything else.

38

thanks for posting the feedback about arrows, and also about the blunted arrows and intention.

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39

Awesome! Well yeah, blunted arrow is one arrow has never worked in the past, will be great have it working sometime.

40

While we are on it, I think the Tar Arrows has some serious issues and very limited PvE (and probably PvP too) usage and really needs some changes.

  1. CRITICAL: There is a serious bug with the tar surface, shooting more arrows doesnt create new surfaces as expected. Instead, whenever you shoot more arrows it makes the first tar surface reset. We can clearly see the tar vanishing and being reapplied in the same spot you shoot the first arrow.

  2. It creates a very small tar area which adds a short slippery status when targets cross it. The status lasts so little I would guess its just a indifferent annoyance in PvP.

  3. In PvE you can barely see the effect on enemies, some I think may even be immune to it. Its very unworth it, may cause yourself more trouble than on enemies. I think the Tar should have the opposite effect, make targets slow rather than slippery. Then it would be an awesome arrow to use on pair with others, like slow targets and throw gas, or simply slow the target to have extra time to shoot or run away to increase the distance.

  4. Setting the tar on fire is a cool feature, but I think the flame damage could be much higher. It takes some reasonable resources to set the tar on fire (you either need an Demonfire Orb or Explosive arrow) and the damage is lower than the poison arrow… making this feature even less appealing