The Purge: An analysis of a bug infested lagfest

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Some preface:

I’m late to the party. My opinion was that a change to the purge was needed but I didn’t anticipate that it would become an on-demand disappointment. So I avoided it, only using the bare minimum of Levels 1-2 purges for quick thralls. That crafter thralls were not included in all updates since its inception up to this Beta was an immediate turn off.

There’s many arguments on multiple sides about its success or failure. Like a trapezohedron :sweat_smile:

While I have my opinions on whether or not the Purge as it is now is “survival”… that’s not why I’m writing this post.

I have completed all 10 Levels for the first time on the Beta for Age of Heroes. I can excuse the instability of the Beta version to a degree but it is also no different than what I have witnessed on both dead and populated servers in everything I’ve tested so far. While I don’t have much experience with Purges, I know that they’re very laggy either from being on a server where one (or more) is happening or my minimal participation in the past.

I am on an NA PVP Public test server. There are minimal builds and nothing too large or resource intensive in terms of placeables, lighting or other effects… except for a few bars including my own. The server acts and feels like a dead Official. While all Officials (and some privates too!) suffer from performance related issues as a baseline, those performance issues can be greatly exacerbated by multiple players online, all doing things. Y’know, building nice bars, building at all, running purges, going to Al-Merayah, fighting bosses/doing dungeons, farming. And if you’re on PVP summoning avatars, bombing bases, fighting in big groups. Etc.,… etc.,…

That’s a lot of stuff to be happening simultaneously.

So I’m going to run through what occurred.


Starting off with the only good thing: there’s now the opportunity to rescue any tier crafter thrall from the cages. Having looked for a shieldwright for weeks to no avail, upon Level 9 I was able to get one. Well done, finally a reason for me to do it. RIP all crafted armours I made XD

The Build Up

The bare minimum is placing a Coffer, adding treasure and hitting Proclaim Wealth. Really there’s nothing else to it.

If you intend on defeating a Level 10 then you have to be very well prepared. Fighters and archers that have food, good armour and weapons. Levelled thralls are better but will die regardless of how much you maximize what they do, wear and use.

A T3 building is best for defence against Demolishers, Starcaller, exploding golems and a lot of clanging weapons. Now HOW you build makes an incredible difference. Some players create mazes or funnels, placing archers with gas and explosive arrows for maximum damage. I did a funnel with mostly thralls being the danger.

Admittedly, I paid good attention to posts on the forums about purges since they implemented it in this way so I was well informed. Prior to doing this on my own, I also watched a few run-throughs and heavily relied on the wiki for what to expect.

Ultimately I wasn’t looking for an experience as I was testing the Purge of course, so I was ok with being guided.

The farming required for running these purges is large. Setting aside the astronomical loot drops you get in the game now, there’s still so much you’ll need even to gain the slightest advantage. Fur, ichor, hides, ichor, leather, iron, steel, tar, ichor, mushrooms, alchemical base… so much alchemical base, starmetal too. Immense amounts.

Then there’s the gold needed. I can see now why they upped the drops for gold. Coin purses galore, seemed like every second NPC dropped coins and treasure. You can farm the gold rocknoses and still not achieve the numbers you need in short order.

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So, to save time I went to Al-Merayah. The fact that the site resets so quickly (including NPCs within seconds),10k coins a pop sure does relieve the burden of farming but it is a cheap, inconsequential and potentially game breaking advantage to get those piles. I’d already learned the quickest way to Nimlot as I’d assisted in obtaining gold to run purges for Isscar the Sellsword so as to buy rams en masse. You don’t even need armour or to bring anything with you! The free raid materials are there plus a Musashi’s Black Blade. So, 4 bombs + a few smashes with 1 ram and done. Rams in PVP are quiet and you can run a raid naked with them - some good times with friends were had… but again, advantageous to nth degree, if not exploitative.

I mention all of this things because players will take great care in perfecting their bases and thralls to run Purges, especially without shortcuts like I’ve done. There is a large time investment if you’re taking it off from the ground. However, most dedicated players are established and perhaps will not have to worry about such things as picking up those gold piles or farming ichor for the tenth time. For these people, it will be in ensuring all of their thralls are the best.

It took me quite a few days to accumulate. I cut some corners for thralls, buying them from the bar or Buccaneer Bay.

Performance

I’m showing this video to get an idea of my base layout and that I haven’t decorated, it’s not a particularly big base. The most that might impact performance minimally (doesn’t bother me) is my inventory of chests. I have 7 lights in total. Aside from thralls I’ve tested and those I needed to stop dancing, the rest are default with no emotes. Aside from the Gothrad I broke bond with (wonder where he went), all crafters are stationary as they’re broken. I kind of feel like I’m having to explain myself :frowning: (But there’s just so much criticism in terms of opinion in size and impact on performance.)

Anyway…

Levels 1-5

Underwhelming and fairly easy to defeat. You do start to run into problems with lag in Level 2. The Purge as it goes up in level means larger waves, differing enemies and new attacks.

Levels 6-8

The performance at my base was astronomically bad during and afterwards. So bad that it reminds me of multiple gods destroying bases on a map at the same time in PVP.

Pathing for the purge NPCs gets progressively worse as the purge progresses:

This is 20 minutes after the 6th ended:

That fire had not disappeared until server reset.

I received some feedback from others on the server that at least they weren’t having issues at the time.

Thralls that are in DBNO stay in a kneeling stance and slide back to where they were originally on guard:

Bodies are like Stretch Armstrong and can’t be removed by harvesting easily:

Things take forever to load and you rubberband if you die (this little section has chests, benches, my bedroll and fridges, the doors are missing):

Levels 9-10

Performance TANKS. I was appalled at how badly everything ran and both of these were while I was alone on the server. I made minimal changes to my base in between 8 and second attempt at 9. It would not spawn until I removed everything including the Coffer.

I won’t be uploading the video because I don’t have the patience for it to process and wait as it is too long. I want to go to bed at a reasonable hour tonight so here are screenshots and dictation XD

I did not witness Scorchers or Demiurges.

My first attempt at a level 9 had issues with StarCaller being visible, I could not find them but that didn’t stop them from raining star metal on my base for 10 minutes, I pulled Coffer to stop it as only pulling the treasure didn’t make a difference. (Yay, lots of star metal now!)

This is 1 minute into Level 10 and I’m rubberbanding attempting to get some ground, this is a guarantee throughout the whole ordeal:

Here I can’t attack but keep weapon out because the 1 HP NPC is trying to initiate a fatality without follow through, this is a reoccurring issue throughout the Purge. Hell, it’s a problem just about anywhere in the game and it even gives you an emote error in dungeons:

Attempting to tap E is near to impossible for DBNO thralls and have to very carefully wade through all the other visual static to press E instead to revive. As a result, you end up having the new revived thrall follow you instead of your intended. Even IF you press and hold at the prompt, it will often only bring up the menu for following thrall commands:

Dead thralls will be stuck in fighting stances and their inventories nearly inaccessible, only harvesting will drop a bag with the contents of their inventories unless you can find the sweet spot to open the dead body’s inventory:

The Demolisher’s have no animations other than walking, they will stand there doing damage with no indication:

If thieves were successful in getting some treasure out of the coffer and they drop it from being killed, there will be a duplicate treasure bag hovering above it:

Multiple cages will give you an error that they’re empty even though you can see NPCs in them:

However, they’re not really, after the purge camp disappears the “empty” cages drop the NPCs:

The NPCs show red as an enemy, “Returning Home” or “Guarding”:

You can try to fight them, it will show that status effects are applied, but their HP does not drop. They also will draw weapons but do not attack you:

They also can’t be KO’d:

These NPCs will remain until server reset.

In addition to dying and waiting for things to load, they load in sections. So this means if you wait for a door to load to open it, the next door will take just as long. Upwards of 5 minutes before everything loads enough for you to do anything.

NPCs often stand staring at your thralls or vice versa, appearing to have troubles calculating where to go and what to do.

Thoughts

As I said in another post: The GPortal servers being used for Officials and advertised by Funcom cannot handle this stuff. No wonder they are the way they are. No wonder we have problems with falling through foundations, being stuck in them, rubberbanding and issues when people have bars and run Purges. It’s so bad. While Purges might not be the cause of many performance issues I’ve listed right here, it has been a reasonable assumption by other players. The Purge could potentially exacerbate those bugs.

When I was on a server in an entirely different place I KNEW when someone was running a Purge.

The good things are the crafter thralls and it doesn’t appear that this server crashes when explo+gas arrows are used at least.

Something needs to be done when it comes to the performance, not ONLY for Officials, for everyone that play on multiplayer. If this is considered the peak end game goal then it falls short mostly in performance; not necessarily the reasonable criticisms regarding its intentions.

If anyone who plays Singleplayer could speak up and state whether they experience the same there I would appreciate it.

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Purges and living settlements are really bad features to add for a game whose servers are struggling. It’s not really great in singleplayer either, but removing the network bottleneck helps with some aspects of it (like loading things after you die), the AI and pathing are still atrocious though.

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Thanks for the insight!

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It doesnt seem too bad on console side, although ive only really done level 1 and 2 purges so can’t confirm fully, my base is semi out in the open and the pathing seems to be ok as the enemies don’t need to run up any stairs to get to my coffer

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Hey - just showing up to add another “Thanks!” yet again.

The amount of care, of screenshotting, of documenting, and in this case - the amount of video capture - that it requires to put this documentation together is extremely tedious.

I know I’ve done this to some degree in the passed. When a bug really gets under my skin. Because I want to provide every single last drop of information soup to best provide game developers with both 1) the tools and 2) the motivation to take corrective actions.

So, thank you again, @Kikigirl for once again being the tops. And for going above and beyond the call of duty for our game and our player community.

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@Community I will if I have to… but do I really need to make separate bug reports for each issue in this post?

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I would not ask you to do that. And I would not wish that upon you. You have already done so much.

I do not think that they will be forced to process any of this until it is in some kind of bug reported format. :cry: :sob: :sob:

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Just giving feedback how it is before Beta!

That’s exactly the reason the front line must be you only! This new system is best for multi-player than single player. Thralls on fights only add danger and frustration, they actually don’t help.
Thralls are for cauldrons and treasury defense, but only inside the treasury. If thieves manage to open you must only be aware of demolishers. The thieves with loot are easy kills and you loose no gold if you win, because you’ll find the stolen gold in the purge loot chests.

A double foundation layer on your perimeter is more than enough. Golems seems to be the best purge addition chapter 4 brought.
Star metal weapon vulnerability must be removed, golems should be more of a challenge. I didn’t tried yet the acid arrows effect on golems, but i will this weekend with @LostBrythunian hopefully.
Horse fighting seems to affect negative the purge since every effort lead to purge retreat.
Last but not least is best to have at least 2 paths to your treasury. If you have just one and for some reason the meteors hit it, the purge cannot pass anymore so they retreat. The scenario to loose both paths from meteors seems really difficult. The most common scenario is that the meteors will create a breach to your treasury room and then you’ll loose the incoming control. Whenever this scenario happens, the purge becomes really fun. You’re in total panic, you slay relentlessly ro every direction.
Keep in mind again… Let them steal but win the purge, this way you get the stolen back!!!

Imagine that when a pve server is over 25/40, then multiple purges may happen. So far these servers is impossible to perform even in pve, so i cannot even imagine the experience on pvp.

Ps. Thanks a million Kiki for the feedback once more, it’s really appreciated!

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This exists even now. All your explanation that continues is exactly what’s happening even now.

If you happen to do purge to your main base and die it’s a hell. You wait really long just for a freaking door to render, while the purge is destroying everything now. You could say that death really has a penalty on high lvl purges.
Although i wanted like nothing else to accept purges in main bases, this functionality is a wing breaker. So purge bases with really low storage and zero decoration is the best bet so far to have a proper (about 80 sec) come back. In a main base purge you need more than 3 minutes anticipation to see a door render and most of the times your loot is invisible.

Npcs work really good only when they need to round you, in all the other cases they seem not to know what to do, they simply cannot decide on which cauldron is best to die.
In chapter 4 they added the “rounding method” when npcs will pass by you giving you the impression that they didn’t see you, but in the perfect moment they will attack from behind.
This may be the reason npcs seem to have a goofy reaction, but against a player works excellent! Then again a group of npcs will not attack at the same time, they will take a small time frame distance between attacks, just enough to break every combo effort a player may have against many.
These 2 additions chapter 4 brought on npcs and skeletons have given a different taste in the game and added a great percentage of difficulty.

Amen sister, Amen!!!

This is my experience as well so far in my console and believe me, i have done over a hundred of purges online in all the levels!

True… Sad isn’t it?

The only deference between online and official is that your game is crashing and you log in to an event that just disappeared. The performance on single player is of course better, but it’s crashing so easy and so often that makes it really annoying :confused:.

Again, thanks a million for your feedback sister and apologies for the double post.
I had some things to take care off so i had to stop and continue later.

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Yes, very important. I recorded each purge level and I was the most active combatant lol

A solo that is knowledgeable like you or I can get it done, not easily, but well.

Agreed and acid doesn’t really help.

Acid in general is great for player raiders if used extensively.

Yes, I had 2 with an ad hoc 3rd.

I didn’t have issues with the meteors blocking pathway and the range of them ignored my main base in the middle since I had the Coffer on the pagoda. I ended up putting up a gazebo to shield from further meteors in between purges.

Yes I’ve experienced it. What a mess!

Yes, this is where thrall positioning and proper combat command settings really helped me.

No worries, this really gave a lot of great insight, thanks!

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I would highly advise against doing so for one simple reason. Individual bug reports might bring attention to individual issues which only show a small data point while neglecting to address the overall picture. A post like the one you made here on the other hand show the individual small data points as well as the larger picture so that they can see how the data points may be affecting one another, or how these different points which individually may not constitute a “high priority” on their end add up to a much larger issue all in one system and can easily push up the “priority level” of it.

But that is all assuming that they are even paying attention to these posts, or that they even had a priority list at all. :rofl:

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i think maybe the location is contributing to the lag. i dont know how it is on pc( im on xbox series s), but the last time i played on official, especially the jungle was dropping my framerate to choppiness, in single player its a bit better but still noticable.

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Jungle is ok on PC. When I participated in some purges near Sep it was very similar at purge level.

In single player you are not quicked,no Crash To Desktop,there is no LAG with 120 defenders and 3-5 waves all together,taking care with scenario,there are no stucked defenders,i don´t know if enemies goes stucked,but if i find the bug “making enemies going stucked bug”,i will use it…maybe you can see a few defenders surrounded by enemies or even stucked,even taking care with letting path ways to coffer clearly wide and with a totally usefull path.

What an antiraid base!!!I like it so much…but you are using a bug or what is this about your lift?..some time before,2 or more years,lift killed you if they went down…i died once when i was just checking how to make a raid but i was not trying to make the raid,just checking the way…it was a very cool antiraid base,i died a few times trying to see the path to get in…as i say,i was not trying to raid,just checking.

The bug of the cages,i think,is something with commander and the pathway to your coffer,just when the commander is going to ask you for fight,your treasure has lost a fundation and is not reacheable…i think is was something like that in single player with no BETA,previously update,i found void cages and i still have the keys to open them,well,you can use them in other raid…i don´t know if game gives you enought keys to open all the cages i think i can not opened one cage once but usually i get more keys,so i had 3 keys from that bug,but i had finally more than 5 keys…maybe is my army,more than 100-120 warriors,and very hard raids…with metal star storm too…at level 7…don´t talk about level 10,120 leveled warriors,WTF,WTF,WTF…rescued companions will give you a big smile on your face.
Sometimes is funny,but you need to make the first wave and see where or how your warriors gets stucked,how they get totally alone against enemies,from where enemies came to your coffer,what kind of enemies,the ones who stoles go straight to your doors and can make your warriors take a different direction from where you have plain…there are a few things to check before do 10th level.

For single player i think is cool…if you want a cool fight,find a place,check and build something cool…with pathways clear,with cauldrons,archer post…

About bugs with scenario…you can build almost everywhere,so,not everywhere have been checked,i guess…find a place with free 200 mtrs to build and probably you will see something different…or adding building restrictions,at least for treasure coffer…it´s a lot of work…so i prefer express my oppinon about prices to build and decorate than talk about bugs…i usually don´t find some bugs i read about…i found others but not these.

I like your antiraid BASE!!!And your jumping style…by the way,with that high life you die!!!I use less life,i die,of course,but not always…so is what i thought,it´s not necesary to use legendary armours or weapons,there is no “anti-death” life skill,or “killer for sure” strenght skill…your stamina is enough for me…the only thing you need is to be good fighting…or use a controller,i play with mouse and keyboard…

I forget to say,in PVP you need this kind of bases,not all people will raid but you can lost everything or a lot of things…they don´t take anything but you have lost things,raiders can´t take heavy things…
So,with these BASES bugs can appears…people don´t like building restrictions,i think is better…but,who knows?

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If you want to test a purge gas arrow crash, put a oil and fire cauldron with thralls on them at the front of your purge base.
do a high level purge and wait for a dozen or so enemies to stand under them like morons taking a fire oil shower and shoot a single gas arrow at their feet.

In my testing it took 7 gas arrows along the path of the enemies or a single gas arrow in the oil/fire from cauldrons to cause a crash.

From the logs it looks like there is a 400 actions per second limit (gas dps) and after that limit there is an 800 actions per second queue. get over 800 actions in the queue, and server crashes.

Fatal error: [File:C:\B\tech_exiles\code\UE4\Plugins\Dreamworld\Source\Dreamworld\Public\DeferredQueue.h] [Line: 185]
FExternalDeferredActionQueue: Trying to enqueue to a full queue

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OMG THAT WAS YOU!? You became my sleeping beauty doll XD I dressed you up :heart:

So I placed it so the skull pulley was on the inside of one of the doors as you can see in the video, this meant that unless the elevator was down they couldn’t use it. Or, they’d have to bomb the door but probably destroy the elevator. Another option would be to explo+gas the ceiling holding the elevator extension but whomever raids it would still have to deal with the layers of anticlimb.

You probably also saw that I reinforced the outside later reducing the entry to one instead of 2. Your sleeping beauty self had me wondering if a possible raid was imminent and I wanted to make it even harder. BTW, I forgot I left all that gold in the coffer XD

So no bugs/exploits being used here, just strategic :slight_smile:

Bat or icebridge would be required if not using arrows. This is also why I built up the 2 dragon statues and rock pillar on the north east. When we could make bubbles this location would require a very smart and well oiled team to raid it - only twice did I lose there: a clan who became friends later and a hacker.

I spent way too much time trying to get the elevators to kill me, I remember when it killed people about 2 years ago, even less sometimes. A clanmate had the misfortune of dying by so much as touching the damn thing. But luckily they’ve seemed to address the elevator deaths.

100%, I learned a lot from purges 1-6 to get them in the right spots!

Thanks again ^^ I learned so much from so many players, even bases I’ve raided I took key points and adapted. This is NOT the best build you can possibly do. It is lazy. You can effectively get about 5 floors in there if you’re careful. I also doubled up the floors for some bomb damage absorption and used the perk for more stability. With a good clan, even a duo or trio, damn it can be quite the experience.

I hope you like your outfit.

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Gosh I don’t even know if I shot a gas arrow but majority of my archers had them and were shooting there.

Were you testing on beta or live?

official live and then unofficial live to see what was happening in the logs.

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There are 3 things that make high lvl purges difficult.
All 3 of them are around the same equation and these are not the morons you already stated.
3)Exploding golems. The best reaction here is to let them hit the foundations with the hammer, they do less dmg than getting explode. Golems however have a huge weakness on star metal and i believe that this must go. Rarely again the explosion of a golem may glitch and you’ll accept explosion dmg from a really fair distance that normally you shouldn’t.
2)Star caller, you have to kill fast. If a player is alone might easily find no time to check the summoning place and have a meteo shower. This is a heavy strike and may change a lot to the purge control.

  1. Lagfest. This will ruin the whole experience, make easy impossible and bring frustration instead of gaming thrill. If you make high lvl purges on official servers and you’ll accidentally die, then things become really bad because the environment takes to log to stabilize and the exit door becomes invisible. It takes lots of time to open this freaking invisible door.

So purge because of Lagfest can become a really bad experience

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3 and 2 can be dealt with using a bit of strategy, 1 may in fact be related to what i was talking about which is gas arrows actually crashing the server.
when you exceed the 400 actions per second, the server starts spamming the log file with warnings. lots of them really really fast.
There’s actually so many broken things that spam the log in conan and can grind a server down to a crawl, a lot of server owners disable most if not all logging.

As for the morons, i’ve torn down and re designed all my purge bases now to take advantage of the bad AI just wanting to stand under fire cauldrons, and i use archers in a U shape around the maze in the center, with cauldrons spaced apart on the sides of the maze.

purges even up to T10 are almost automated now, only have 4 fighters behind a door at the end of a maze and they never have to fight at all. small golem bait towers out front keep the 'splody golems busy long enough for me to clear them with arrows and by taking out the enemy camp tower archers before a starcaller can appear its usually easy enough to camp the starcaller platform and dispatch them before they can call a single meteor.

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