The rules seem to be dead

Yeah there’s not a one size fits all criteria for private servers. With Funcom Provided Servers you get:

  1. One size fits all moderation. Its the same team for every server. Which is a reactive or passive set of moderation. They have a few people that work normal hours. That respond only when a report is put in, and have to work through each report as they come in. So if you put in a report, it might be some time before they investigate. You will have the benefit of being serviced by a moderator that will most times be unbiased.

*Now a caveat here. While it is incredibly unlikely for a FC server admin to play on the severs they admin, its not impossible. And unlike on private servers its incredibly difficult if not impossible to identify who the server admins actually are. So if bias happens, you’ll never be able to detect it. That can only ever be uncovered and actioned by internal review, in either case we would never hear about such an event occurring if it did.

  1. One server host. This is G-Portal. And G-portal isn’t… bad. Sort of. If you play unmodded and with less than 10 players, its fine. FC servers are up to 40 players at a time and host hundreds of accounts per server (40 player limit doesn’t mean 40 players forever, but 40 at a time). Its a bit touch and go for performance.

  2. Never wipes. Some may call this a detriment, but you only really need to wipe if your server will not launch. All other reasons to wipe are optional and by the preference of the server owner. Funcom as the server owner has decided not to wipe unless they have to.

With private servers. You get… well a wider range.

  1. You get either active, reactive, or no moderation. Active moderation is where the server admins will actually be looking around for infractions. They can sometimes catch things even before they are reported and handle them on the spot. Their response times to reports can also vary. This could be in under a minute to several hours, or even about a day. Anything longer and you can pretty much consider it FC-like reactive moderation. On occasion you will find unmoderated servers. Either the admins/owners don’t respond, or don’t have any means of contact. The most populated servers however are going to have active moderation.

Admin quality is going to be different depending on what server you are playing. While Funcom admins are consistent, you have the issue of them being reactive and sometimes slow to respond. With private servers, active admins will resolve an issue relatively quickly, in some cases within minutes. You’re mileage will vary because instead of reading from a card and acting according to flowcharts, you will get personal opinion instead. Its fast but inconsistent comparably. You can also get bias on occasion. Server owners will likely give leeway to personal friends as well as themselves.

The benefit to the internet is its pretty easy to spot certain favoritisms and bias and server owners that exhibit that behavior quickly lose their player counts. When you have a large server community (especially in the 1000-2000 counts), you usually have expensive costs associated with that which is subsidized by donations given freely. Those donations and player counts go away quickly the moment there is even a suspicion of bias that can’t be proven otherwise. So you’re pretty safe to play on the more populated servers without much fear there. If it ever did happen, it would be very much apparent and you would know exactly who is doing it. Unlike on FC servers*.

  1. Myriad of server hosts. Many private servers (and all console private servers) use G-portal. These are going to have the same limitations as FC servers. Though they will likely not have the several hundred players played on their databases and will likely have somewhat better performance. If they are small servers then they will have pretty decent performance. As for other private servers you will have a whole load of different experiences.

You’ll have some servers literally running the dedicated server software on the same underpowered laptop they are trying to run the game on. Obviously these will be horrible experiences, worse than FC provided Servers. Some will run the server on a dedicated box they run themselves. This can provide great performance assuming its well kept and the bandwidth of their home internet is good. Some will rent servers from decent server hosts and this is more of the average server. These servers run quite well but will begin to struggle once mods are tacked on and their player counts exceed 40 (the game -IS- designed around 40). You’re still likely to see somewhat better performance in these cases than you’re used to if all you’re used to is 15-40 player prime time G-portal servers. Finally you have the really expensive options where they are renting a physical machine dedicated to just the server. These are going to give you the best performance and frequently you’ll see player counts online of 60, 70, 80, or even more players.

  1. Wipes happen. To my knowledge there is only a handful of private servers that don’t wipe (and some have maps older than the ones on FC servers since the FC servers did wipe at one point nearly 7 years ago).Which means the majority do wipe at some point. Some do it by season. Some do it by necessity when their servers no longer launch properly. If you’re modding, eventually wipes will be needed as the mods influence the game in ways that it wasn’t designed to. Many mods don’t require this. But its not exactly known which mods will cause issues and which ones don’t. There’s also wipes whenever the community of a server wishes to wipe and start afresh. Private server players are well accustomed to wipes and even enjoy them. There’s a good portion of the game that is designed for levels 1-59 and you don’t get to experience that part of the game with a character that’s been level 60 for over half a decade.

To put things in perspective, not every private server is the same quality. They range from really badly managed or running servers, to really well maintained and managed. Usually you can find the good ones by looking at the player counts, especially over a large span of time. Those servers with over 50 players during primetime that have been around for years will have a far better experience than anything you can have on a FC provided server.

The biggest issue people have when playing on private servers is ego and pride. Its very easy to play on the Funcom Provided Servers because of how detached they are from their servers. When you put in a report or get a suspension its effectively ‘from’ a robot. Its an automated response. While many don’t like this. It does not come close to hitting a nerve when pride or ego get in the way.

When you make a report or get action against you from someone who has a face and has a name and personality you know. Well then it can have a different effect. If you make a report and feel like they are not taking the action you want them. It can get one ticked off. Especially if action is being taken against them. They could even take it personally and feel like it is a personal attack.

An automated response from a computer telling you about an error you did is usually not construed as a personal attack. People get comfortable with that, compared to getting it from someone they ‘know’.

Well ironically that’s not exactly how it works, its just how it looks. When a FC admin response, yes they use copy and paste responses, they do this out of brevity. They are still a person, they are still using their personal opinions and still making personal judgements. But they are some random entity you don’t have an actual name of, a face of, or even a screen handle outside of their work handles.

Its functionally the same (outside of how and when) response as you would get from a private server. But the perception is the same. If you need proof of that, Umboris here in this thread is telling us outright how it works.

The only difference is he is withholding his personal opinion on what he thinks about the screenshots. A private server admin could very well tell you what they think (though a good one still wouldn’t action on just a screenshot alone and would use it to help verify, which is exactly what Umboris would do). Though some don’t.

What I find ironic is some posters here ARE pushing for his personal opinion. “Well doesn’t this look like…?” That is asking for a subjective opinion, and not a professional objective fact, you can’t get that from a screenshot. I mean we can’t even verify the screenshot was not taken from a fabrication in singleplayer, much less what server it was on. That takes investigation on the server in question. We don’t know those structures even exist on the server until we login to that server.

If all it took was a screenshot, everyone could be banned with just a few fake screenshots using player names and clan names. Be very glad it takes much more than a screenshot for them to take action. Of course people love their tinfoil hats and think this actually happened to them. But everyone also thinks their farts don’t stink. This is why the chances of a wrongful ban are abysmally low. Instead the feelings of being wronged are a difference of opinion. But at the end of the day, the opinion that matters is of the one who pays the bills on the server. The owner, not the players, no matter who that owner is.

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And what if it takes 23 screen caps to take in the entire build? Oh my bad, that is just the top part that cover dagons decent, it doesn’t include the bottom elevator landing that takes you from the ground up to it, or the massive tower down the other side, the bridge with 8 T3 animal pens across knob river, and a good part of the bank.

:100:

You know my issue with private servers, modaminiums.

:face_with_raised_eyebrow: not the term I’d use, and don’t agree. One size fits all implies there is some.

If only,

If ever.

:neutral_face:

The only time I have ever seen a Gportal server run smoothly was right after the beta server got wiped when only 4 people were on.

DOOOOO IIIITTTTTTT
Bite the bullet, pull the trigger, lets give everyone a fresh start. WITH hard coded land claim blocks; think 7D2D.
:roll_of_toilet_paper:
:roll_of_toilet_paper:
:roll_of_toilet_paper:

Once players get the feel of a nice clean uncluttered server, they may not be so happy with the slaggy mess with have now.

More down time waiting on mod updates then play time?
Having a great time today to :black_large_square: tomorrow?

I’m pushing for carved in stone rules and built in preventions.
If people aren’t supposed to build there make it a no build zone
The only way to stop people from violating the ToC is to simply not give them the option to.

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Umboris is not a developer and can’t make those happen.

The developers are not interested in developing features solely to cover issues in reactive moderation.

Why do you believe all private servers are modded? Deacon thinks PS4/5 and Xbox private servers are modded. :rofl:

Oh on this note Deacon, I think you got a bit unlucky :man_shrugging:
As far as I understand you haven’t played on that many modded servers and did so in a period with heavy updates… not all servers are like that and not all server admins have issues with the updates.

Basically what I’m getting at is that if you have lots of mods which always need to be updated (not all mods do, it depends on what they do and how) and a provider like gportal who caches mods so they don’t even see the new versions for a long time, then yes… it can definitely become an issue and you might need several restarts or manual updates (if the owner even knows how to do that) to get things working after a game update.

However… this is not in any way universal and in most cases it’s not nearly as bad as you described.

I can give you an example of my personal server where I didn’t have any downtime when going from Chapter 2 to Chapter 3 for example… despite the server having 27 mods.
Why? because most of those are made by me and they actually do NOT require updates in 99% of the cases when the game updates, and for the ones that do, I simply kept an eye out and installed them as they came out, so it was very seamless.

There are a lot of other servers even with much larger mod lists that have very competent admin teams who always keep an eye out for this stuff and they have minimal downtime. That’s why I said it’s a bit of a hit or miss thing… you definitely played on a “miss” one by the sound of it :slight_smile:

Unpopular opinion perhaps but after observing the carnage on officials from the current policies I would prefer no policing at all.

Definitely plenty of places to build now so there is that.

This has been my experience by and large.

Aside from a recently opened one that has been for the most part well moderated and fair up until recently.

I will always agree that private servers are an -option- and are often a helluva lot better on performance. But they are not a solution to the #conanofficialserverproblems.

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Thank you for the write-up @Taemien. There’s a lot of good information here.

With regards to this caveat, I agree that it’s both incredibly unlikely but not impossible for a Funcom employee to play on official servers. Though there is enough oversight in our process that any biased or one-sided action would be noticed.

I also know the people on our team fairly well and this just wouldn’t be their style.

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I know that :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I’m on a PC, don’t give a flying fornication about xblocks or paystation.

Yes, I think I should’ve added a caveat above in regards to that :slight_smile:
You play mainly on PvP, so the ratio of abusive admins indeed skyrockets in that mode, since it is very rare for PvP server owners to not be either personally or at least through a friend involved in the battles of the server… and things can definitely snowball when an admin gets involved.

So I do agree with you there when it comes to the PvP game mode, that good unbiased admins are definitely harder to come by… even when you do, they seem to be overly focused on illegally trying to make money from itemshops etc… there always seems to be an “angle”.

No accusations here. :slightly_smiling_face:

I was just pointing out that the system in place requires a ton of trust and I know you guys are doing your hardest to maintain it. Whereas on private servers the level of trust isn’t so much required since it gets very obvious on who does what really quickly.

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I appreciate the nuance of the point you were trying to make. Just wanted to provide some insight into why it’s very unlikely. This is something management has been thinking of with regards to Game Masters all the way back to Anarchy Online.

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Hit the nail on the head there.

It can be costly depending on your situation to put a well maintained private together. Not to mention the advertisement and retention policies involved. So I can see where an idea of “I have the gold, I make the rules” happens.

Which is why I will never be an admin. I am not perfect and just like anyone can be incredibly biased. I also know a lot of the NA PVP community and extended around the world so it would be super hard for me to be impartial.

So therein lies a lot of the problem.

I have always preferred Officials because I don’t have to worry about a lot of the issues I’ve had in the past but Officials have their own ridiculous problems. It’s either pick bad option A or B. Or play singleplayer and I’m way past that in terms of needing a social experience.

I agree that claims have to be investigated before any action can be taken. Photos are not always conclusive. However, we can only submit five on the initial report, with more after the e-mail is received. We recently had a clan wiped that was in clear violation of basic courtesy. It took a while, but it happened. I would guess it sped up when screenshots of their conversations about blocking and causing lag on purpose were sent in by two players.

I also agree that it is difficult to keep up with reports, since there are players who post on this forum how they report any and every violation.

I was wondering if finding trustworthy player(s) on servers to consult when a report is made has ever been considered ? A simple, “Hey, should we look at this?” e-mail would help condense the time taken, and many times a player who knows a good portion of the server players might have more knowledge about the situation. Sure, bias is always a consideration, but if they can demonstrate over time that their opinion is valid, why not take a chance?

I think the part that @Umborls can’t outright say is that there is a very significant portion of people trying to abuse the system, using reports as a tool to “try their luck” at getting rid of someone… whether that’s for PvP reasons or they just don’t like them… or they want that spot to build on in PvE… etc.

Because of that, even when the evidence looks clear as day and very overwhelming… they do have to be very skeptical about them… Couple that with the sheer number of tickets they get and the limited time they might get to decide in a matter… I have a feeling that even when they reach a decision… they’re not always 100% sure it was the right call, but they have to make one…
(it might also explain why a lot of reports seem to be “ignored”)

Just speculating here :stuck_out_tongue:

This has the potential to lead to the same kind of abuse :man_shrugging: if you’re relying on a third party to “nudge” you in a direction, that system would be equally susceptible to misuse… plus it would further slow down the system.

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Really good photo evidence is really nice and does help us know exactly what we’re looking for when we get into the server. But don’t feel that you need to convince us of the problem in those photos. If you report it, we are going to look in the location you provided no matter what. Technically, you could just provide us with the screenshot of the specific map location and as long as we can see the problem when we go there, then we’ll take the necessary action.

We don’t ever consult players with regards to rules violations. There are privacy concerns that would be involved with sharing the details of investigations.

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If I may ask, how is the location looked at? Physically? If so, is the person conducting the review invisible?

What will it take to update the System Requirements (on steam)? It’s obvious that this game will not run on a plain ps4. It runs on PS4 PRO, however.

I’ve heard this argument a lot but I respectfully disagree. Player reports don’t cause us to take disciplinary actions, they cause us to conduct investigations. Any action we take is a result of what we find.

Players aren’t having action taken against them or their clans without actually having violated a server rule. It can sometimes not be clear to players when we do take action. This is a consequence of us not having a good way to reach out to players in that situation (this is something we regret not having thought of during early development). I have to think this is likely where this idea of weaponized reports comes from.

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There’s quite a bit that can be shown in a screenshot. While five seems a bit low. They only really need the general area of where the violation is, as well as showing who it is. When they investigate at those coordinates they are going to see everything in real time just as you do, as well as being able to ghost through the floors and walls and ground to see things you don’t see.

When they decide to take action, they aren’t going to edit the base. They’re going to demo every single piece they have on the map, whether its part of the violation or not. Its gonna poof in a spectacular fashion.

Trust me, when they get on the ground and there’s a 10,000 cube wall… they’re not going to wonder which build you were talking about. Needing to show 10-20 screenshots seems excessive and kinda stinks of a player trying to formulate a narrative.

Screenshot of the building, screenshot of the map location, and maybe a third of the elements showing the detriment it is causing. Then put the coordinates in the actual report which you can get from Ctrl-Shift-Alt-L on PC (not sure how to do it on console) and then Ctrl-C to copy the coordinates. It will look like this:

TeleportPlayer 24902.904297 319315.09375 -20925.244141

Which allows the moderator to copy and paste that directly into the console and go exactly to the location.

If this is available on console, someone please comment on how to do it. But as Umboris said, the map location is good enough. They can actually use the map for teleporting as well. Its my preferred method of adminning.

We don’t join live servers for moderation. It would take up a player slot and we also can’t join servers that are too far away from us due to ping limits. Since we have access to the server database, we can copy it to our workstation and then load it up as a single player game.

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