Thrall nerf to far?

Conan Exiles PC Discussion Public Beta Client
497

It honestly astounds me that the game has been around this long, and they haven’t put that in. PvP servers should get one set of stat sliders, PvE servers should get one set, and PvE-C should get a middling set.

So everyone can play where they want, balanced more towards their style of play and everyone isn’t affected by decisions that focus on one end or another.

You keep saying Base Defense is getting shafted in this because base thralls are going to be too weak now. Perfect example of how this sort of slider usage could have been implemented.

PvP server - base thralls are weaker than pre-3.0 to compensate for players raiding and fighting them
PvE server - base thralls are closer to pre-3.0 in design for players to setup purge defense as they wish

But people don’t want to be responsible. They want it inflicted upon them, and others.

You know what this honestly sounds like? The way they used to teach swimming back in the old days. Or at least, how it’s presented commonly in older TV shows or movies.

Go chuck the kid into the pond or lake and tell them learn to swim or die.

Nobody should be sitting here talking about removing the crutch, to force players to play or learn how to play differently. What gives you that right?

You have your view that they can have more fun doing this or that. That’s fine. The problem is when you try to start enforcing your view on other people. That’s wrong.

It’s for them to decide what is fun for them in the game. I don’t want someone foisting their ideal playstyle down my throat through statistical and mechanical changes.

I like using thralls at my discretion. It’s my choice on who to obtain, who to level, and how I use them. Why take that away? It’s not hurting you or anyone else because I play PvE.

2 Likes
498

Hey you are bringing up “choice” ideals in the mix. Come on indeed.

499

But again…who cares if it’s the most optimal way to play? Just because it’s optimal, people are forced into doing it?

I’m far from doing things in the optimal way, I’m sure. I put 40+ hours into the game and barely made it to Sepermeru. Sure as h*ll haven’t even made it out of the desert.

People kept telling me to go to the Wine Cellar to get that truncheon, and I still didn’t rush right there to do it, or get an RHTS.

Just because it’s optimal, doesn’t mean everyone used it, and there was zero reason it needed to be changed, on PvE. PvP is another story, but again this is why we need separate stats for PvE or PvP servers.

These changes will always be nothing more than “FC doesn’t like that this is optimal, so regardless of whether people do it or not, we’re going to take it out of the equation entirely.”

It sets a dangerous precedent.
The bat + slow fall means you can likely fly over a base in PvP and come down inside for an air drop assault inside a base.
Sure to get exploited in PvP.

The ice stairs means you can get over a wall in it.
Again, it’s going to get exploited in PvP.

So the bat and stairs are almost certainly going to get ganked because of that. Once again, PvE usage affected by PvP exploitations.

Fact is, strong Thralls might be optimal. But it’s player responsibility on their usage. And FC shouldn’t be stepping in to moderate that.

Okay, maybe I was wrong about doing things “optimally”.

I worked this out years ago on PS4, and I literally still do this in every game. It’s ingrained into me now as my personal optimal way to play.

That being go to H3 and build a 2x2 starter. Use the river for water, nearby stuff for hides and light armor, stone gear, plenty of resources for stations.

Then I truck myself out to Lookout Point on the eastern edge of the desert.
I raid the camp on the point for thralls to put in my stations and a fighter/archer to go with me.

At the point I harvest iron for upgrading my gear to something stronger. At some point I truck myself all the way back to H3, where I then head north to Dustdevil Ridge. There is a spot between Heartsblood Rise and Dustdevil Ridge that I use for a camp.

I raid those two camps for thralls.
I go down to get brimstone in Sinner’s Refuge.
I get iron from the base of the ridge, or out to the west a ways.
I use the Summoning Place for some thralls once I’m better established.

Typically I’m pushing 30 or so by then and get the Sandstorm mask.
I gather up my stuff and go to Sepermeru, for a new camp near Shattered Springs for a large steelworks.
I raid Sepermeru for thralls. I go north to the one POI that looks out over the valleys below and put an elevator to head down and start doing furs for the colder climate.

So that’s my optimal.

2 Likes
501

I don’t think you understand my power in this game or to influence those in FC. I have none and I can only influence FC by the merit of my ideas and not because I’m this ubercool :rofl:…sorry can’t continue that with a straight face.

The company has repeated said that thralls are supporting cast and have been trying for years to wean players from their thralls while trying to maintain the difficulties of the game to promote multi-player interactions. This is something I totally agree with and have been very sympathetic towards for the time I have been here playing and interacting on the forum because it is hard to balance it all. From what I have seen in the dev announcements and the testlive feedback, I believe mission accomplished has been met and I am very happy not just for the idea of watching everyone enjoying the emotions of a higher risk environment but for the dev team, themselves, that have been plagued with this overarching problem for years and finally get a solution to it out there…awesomeness. It just took completely redesigning the entire character structure to do it…no biggy.

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502

Sooooo, they are doing it for PvP reasons. :rofl:

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503

ditto. Friends can disagree and we do so with passion because we have a shared love of this game.

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504

People kept telling me to go to the Wine Cellar to get that truncheon, and I still didn’t rush right there to do it, or get an RHTS.

I’m not optimal either. I use Star Metal DLC weapons and Armour cause it looks cool, even if the stats are useless to me. I prefer pets as combat companions over Thralls too.

I still stand by my point though. It is going to broaden what is defined as optimal. And that is ultimately good as far as Im concerned.

At the end of the day, if Thralls weren’t ever as powerful as they are now, none of us would be having this discussion because none of us would be used to using them like they can be. There’d be something else.

505

Maybe it’s just people need to learn that optimal doesn’t mean the same thing as only. And treat it as such.

Optimal for some isn’t the same thing as optimal for all, I mean.

506

I have more interactions with players on PVE than PVP.

In PVP, I am in the zone and you get nothing from me. I am already at a disadvantage playing solo vs clan of 5-10 so no…I’m not going to deal with “friend requests” whose sole purpose is to glean intel. When honor comes back to PVP, then we can talk.

PVE? Sure lets chat and go do a dungeon together. You need to trade this for that? That’s a deal.

507

Yeah, but it feels more like PvP base raiding is a very strong factor in this nerf, not PvE dungeons from players.

I mean, if I were PvE online and doing dungeons, doesn’t mean I’d take a thrall at all, tbh. Why take a thrall when you have human players to go with instead?

508

At least you get to fight, I’m stuck at the carpentry bench :hammer::carpentry_saw:

7 Likes
509

I’m a d**khead for saying this, but that doesnt make it any less true.

Humans are idiots.

To so many people, optimal is the only way. They’re so tunnel visioned on it anything else doesnt exist.

As erjoh pointed out, this wasnt FC vision to start with either. Dumb AI made original Tralls useless, so they got HP & Damage buffer. It spiraled from there because everything had to be balanced around them, not us.

1 Like
510

Honestly, I haven’t seen any solid argument or bit of evidence whatsoever that PVE players won’t be able to choose their own difficulty even after nerf.

If anyone got shafted here, it might be PVP players. As for PVE players, we’re not only going to have the same options as before – go it alone, let the follower help, or let the follower do all the work – we’re going to have even more options, what with the authority perks and temporary followers and all the fun new stuff.

The purge was my only concern, which is why I asked about it and people who actually tested it were kind enough to reply.

It’s not rhetorics at all. I’ve seen the whole “thralls are OP, I don’t want to be a sidekick, I want to be the hero” trope way too many times to count. Always in PVE context.

Meanwhile, PVP players have been complaining quite often how base defense needs more love. I’ve never seen a PVP player suggest that thralls – the things that help defend their bases – need to be nerfed.

2 Likes
511

Oh I know full well on that score.

FC is trying to juggle a lot of disparate systems into something functional.

Again. SPLIT the stat/sliders for the different server types. It’d solve so many problems in this, it literally isn’t funny anymore.

That way you can legit tweak different aspects of the game separately, without having to do a blanket change that affects everything. And 9/10 busts something else in the process.

Add in more sliders as well.

Player DMG vs Bosses / Boss DMG vs Players
Thrall DMG vs Bosses / Boss DMG vs Thralls

Stuff like that to better fine tune the system as a whole anyways.

Seriously though, the game is never going to be functionally balanced. It’s just, pretty impossible. I’ve said this before on several occasions.

Look at all the different things to try and balance.

Player vs NPC
Player w/ Thrall vs NPC
Player w/ two Thralls vs NPC
Two Players vs NPC
Two Players w/ two Thralls vs NPC
Two Players w/ four Thralls vs NPC

Player vs Boss
Player w/ Thrall vs Boss
Player w/ two Thralls vs Boss
2 Players vs Boss
2 Players w/ 2 Thralls vs Boss
2 Players w/ 4 Thralls vs Boss

Base with 50 Thralls vs Purge
Base with 65 Thralls vs Purge (assuming +15 for 1 clan member)
Base with 80 Thralls vs Purge (assuming +30 for 2 clan members)

The base thing is a rabbit hole with all the possible combinations of raiders +/- thralls vs defenders +/- thralls.

And it all just boils down to the same thing. The game is always going to be easy when you stack the odds in your favor. It doesn’t have dynamic scaling like other games.

The more thralls you stack around your base, the easier it’ll be to defend, in theory.
The more thralls/players that go up against a boss, the easier it’ll be to take down.

But unless dynamic scaling becomes a thing, then things have to be balanced towards the lower end of the spectrum. You can’t balance a boss because a player -might- have two thralls with them, when that may not be the case. Just like you can’t balance a boss on the premise that you might have 2+ players with multiple thralls each attacking it.

Because it’d then force them to play that way.

3 Likes
512

This is the main thing that is massively being overlooked in the new update.

3 Likes
516

@Funcom_Community Isso é ótimo @Dana , o jogo ótimo para mim até estou achando fácil mas até o momento a questão é saber fazer funcionar tudo. Por falar na questão sobre o feedback sim existem alguns problemas que somente os desenvolvedores podem resolver isso como pode ver em alguns assuntos que eu mesmo perguntei ou até entrei na discursão por que há esses problemas dentro do jogo também e atinge a todos como falha ou algum tipo de trapaça, não irei repetir tudo. Por favor confira todos os problemas que ja citei aqui sobre como melhorar o conan exiles e erros que também fazem falta como nosso resgate dos DROPS realizado na Twitch.

Tenho mas perguntas porém essas que fiz são somente eles os desenvolvedores que podem consertar são erros e falhas e trapaças que todos sabemos e esperamos que tenha solução o quanto antes ou junto com a atualização 3.0 Age Of Sorcery. Obrigado aguardo… :slight_smile:

517

But is it? From the past year’s worth of updates, the base defense has been repeatedly been getting slowly nerfed but kept the raid offense at the same level. It was only noticeable when they stopped the fence stacking and everyone then noticed how far it’s been. I was expecting the cuts in the current build Metas because of how other aspects of defensive building was removed. So because this has been a slow, death by a 1000 cuts sort of thing, you gotta ask…is it intentional and if so what is the new vision of PVP game moving towards? Seeing how offensive items are not getting nerfed, I would venture to say that the vision is your building techniques will not save you so build to aesthetics but expect to be raided and loose your stuff. That could be alpha or just starting. Base defenses will not stand against the raid offense so you will loose stuff. I think this is the intent they are wanting. A King of the Hill game play where alpha spots are lost as often as gained. Quick and rapid server hierarchy changes in a weekly manner.

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520

I like how right you usually are, but I hope you’re wrong here. :smiley:

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521

If they turn on DBD, then it would make everything make sense but without it, it’s just going to be thunderdome on steriods.

522

Pity they can’t just make PvP servers spawn camps for clans to claim and hold.
With pre-placed crafting stations that you can use, but not remove or destroy.

Set up groups/clans of 5 or 10 members.
Get randomly sorted into one with others.

Then it’s just a race to get resources, raid other camps to take them over like a control point. With a weekly reset back to nothing.

Might or might not work. shrugs