Thrall Stats/HP/Armor inconsistency

Game mode: Online
Problem: Misc
Region: North America

I posted all of this in another post, and a few of these discrepancies may be intended, but there are multiple oddities with the distribution of Stats amongst the Factions, as well as their Base HP, the number of HP they get for every point of Vitality, and the amount of Armor they get per point of Agility.

In addition, giving us a % of damage increase for melee/ranged for every point of Strength/Accuracy is completely useless, since there is no way to determine Base Damage. A percentage on its’ own tells you absolutely nothing without knowing what it is a percentage of.

For the issues below I will be referring to the data collected on this spreadsheet. I took the numbers from single player but have verified a good bit of them online as well. I entered all data at Level 0, including Base Stats, HP, HP bonus from Vitality, and Armor Bonus from Agility. For Factions that spawn with 0 in Vitality/Agility I used a piece of Armor with a +1 in that stat to get the HP bonus/Armor bonus. For the Relic Hunters I used the Captain as a fighter (couldn’t find another non-purge T4 RH fighter), and I treated the RHuTS as a separate Faction since they seemed to have their own stats.

Possible Issues across Factions:

  • A lot of the lower tier factions have no difference between Fighters and Archers, while most of the higher tiers do, this may be intentional but is probably a mistake.

  • The Black Hand Fighter and Archer Base Health and HP/Point seem to be backwards, that is the Archers get the high values and the Fighters get the low. This may be intentional but it’s the only one like this.

  • The Darfari archers base stats are way too low, barely half of the Fighter Base Stats.

  • While most Factions get 10 Armor per Point of Agility, some get 8. Not sure if this is intentional, but it just seems like it isn’t quite right. The Darfari Archer only gets 6.

  • The HP/Point distribution seems a bit wonky, with many Factions having a Fighter value twice as high as the Archer value while others have the same for both. Not sure which way they intended it to work, or if they wanted some Factions to have a different ratio, but I would imagine that either they should all be split or none.

  • This one is total guesswork, but I think that Voltaires was supposed to get 15 Accuracy and 2 Survival instead of the other way around. That would make them the best well rounded damage dealers but not the best in class either way (without knowing Base Damage).

Possible Issues with individual thralls:

  • The Cimmerian Berserker (Forgotten Tribe T4 Fighter) has the Archer Base Health and HP/Point instead of the Fighter.

  • Beastmaster Teimos (Black Hand T4 Fighter) is currently spawning with over twice the HP/Point as any other faction.

Steps on how to reproduce issue:

  1. Get a program such as Microsoft Excel or any other spreadsheet software.
  2. Put the numbers given to the thralls into the spreadsheet.
  3. Compare the numbers against each other and see if it looks like there are any of them that do not look quite right.

Hello @LostInTim, we really appreciate the time taken to provide such constructive and thorough feedback!

Regarding some of the points you’ve brought up:

This is actually intentional as the unit archetype isn’t factored in the base stats, which are distributed across factions.

This is also intentional as The Black Hand is meant to have the most ferocious archers!

Also intentional, a similar case to the previous one.

Regarding this point, we’ll bring it up with the team so that they can look into it.

The fact that HP is distributed differently between each faction and unit archetype is also intentional.

We can confirm that the stats for Votaries are correct as is, considering that archers deal more ranged damage overall.

Thank you for pointing this out, these thralls will likely have to be looked at.

is it me or are these tthree contradictionary?
Either archetype does not matter or it does, but you state both?

Thanks for the reply, but if the unit archetype isn’t figured into the base stats, I don’t get why the Darfari Archer only spawns with 0/7/0/0/15 instead of 0/15/0/0/30 like the Darfari Fighter, unlike every other Faction where the unit archetype doesn’t actually figure into the base stats, but there is only 1 of him and Darfari are pretty trash so I’m not super worried about that.

I’ll buy the Black Hand being swapped on purpose I guess, but it seems weird that the lower tiers match and the uppers don’t. If that’s the way they intended it I guess we’ll see how it works over time, I’m sure these numbers will be balanced and adjusted many times in the future.

I think you also misunderstood what I meant about the Fighter/Archer difference in the upper tiers vs the lower, I was talking about how the lower tiers do not have a difference in base health and hp/point, the base values not the base stats, which I get are equal in most cases.

Hi! To elaborate and clarify on this, the classes from different factions will have their base stats being determined by the faction they belong to, not by their class, which may lead to opposing cases such as these two, where the Black Hand have strong archers and the Darfari have weaker ones.

The same principle applies to HP, resulting in a similar behavior where certain factions have different values for the same classes. It might make more sense to compare the same archetypes between factions than different archetypes within the same faction.

I think you misunderstood me, as I was not ever comparing Archers vs Archers across factions. The Darfari and Black Hand were 2 separate issues.

The Darfari issues was only about Darfari base stats, nothing else. The Darfari Fighter spawns with 15 Agility, 30 Survival, and 0 in all other stats. The Darfari Archer spawns with 7 Agility, 15 Survival, and 0 in all other stats. This means that the Darfari do NOT have the same base stats across types, unlike every other Faction. This seems like a mistake to me.

The Black Hand issue was only about Black Hand base values, nothing to do with stats. The Black Hand Archers have a base HP of 1440 and gain 172.67 HP/point, whereas the Black Hand Fighters have a base HP of 1320 and gain 158.33 HP/point. Archers start out with and gain more HP than Fighters in the Black Hand only. The other Factions (those with a split) have their Fighters with a higher HP and the Archers with a lower. It just seemed to me that the values got swapped, but if this one Faction is completely unlike any of the others for a reason then so be it.

Again, I wasn’t comparing the Factions against each other, I was pointing out the fact that While the majority of the tribe have different base health between their own Archers/Fighters, there are 3 that do not. The Darfari, Dogs, and Exiles have the same Archer/Fighter base health and HP/level (except the Darfari exception mentioned above). Do that a Dogs Archer spawns with the same health as a Dogs Fighter, etc. I was merely surprised that the would have those 3 Factions different than the other Factions, where a Lemurian Archer spawns with a different health than a Lemurian Fighter, for example.

Those 3 are some of the lower tier tribes I suppose, but it just seems to be a little random that the Black Hand and Lemurians would have the split, yet they would be ranked in between the Darfari and Dogs, neither of which do. Had it been all Factions from Exiles to Dogs that didn’t split and and all Factions from Nords to the Voltaries that did split, I probably wouldn’t find it as odd. It may have a reason, it just looked funny.

Hugo, the char below shows some of the discrepancies I mentioned. There are 2 lines/points, but they only split On the Darfari, because of the Base Stats problem with the Archer, otherwise the ratio ends up being exactly the same within each Faction.

I took Base Health ( [Lvl 0 HP] - [Vitality Health Bonus] ) for each Faction’s Archer and divided it by the Base Health for that same Faction’s Fighter (blue line). Then I took HP/Point of Vitality ( [Vitality Bonus] / [Vitality], or [Vitality Bonus] using a piece of +1 Vitality Armor for Factions that spawned with 0 Vitality) for each Faction’s Archer divides by their Fighter.

You can see that the ratios are equal for every Faction (except Darfari), and that the Black Hand is the only Faction with a ratio > 1 (Archer HP > Fighter HP). Exile and Dogs Archer/Fighter ratios come out at 1 (same values at spawn for both Archetypes), and every other Faction has a 0.67 (2/3) ratio for the values.

Now the Darfari are an obvious mistake, but I’m not sure about the Black Hand, Dogs, and Exiles. Much like the Armor/Point discrepancies, which you sent off to the dev team, I just feel like these may be out of whack, and wanted to call them to your attention.

What I am really concerned with is the damage values, since we can’t get those to compare currently I am worried there may be some errors in the distribution of those as well.

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