Thralls walking through walls and doors and being killed

If you really want an answer (and this is not only a suggestive question) then you will have to point out to what post of mine you are exactly referring here.

I’ll have to give that a try and document what happens. Thanks for the suggestion.

I am testing now all different ideas on all different thralls… Lets see what happens :wink:

Edit: Also to clarify what I want: I want my archers to not teleport to the ground, but shoot at enemies.

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Doesnt work at all for me… Now the thrall runs at the triangle ceiling without even attacking anything.

Because at the other side of the building, is a damn Hyena (which you cannot see).

Also what do you select? Stand and Defend? Then the ranges? Do you ever selelct to use ranged? And in which order?

Yeah, that´s what I also want, plain and simple. :sweat_smile:
And good luck on the testing! You will probably need it - as there are in total

enjoy :joy: :wink:

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The order that I use:
— Attack everything
— Attack distance 50
— Chase distance 50
— Prefer ranged attacks
(thrall doesn’t have melee weapon in his/her inventory)

So my 2 thralls which were on the ground, I set to Stand and defend, then ranged 50m, chase distance 5m. Nothing else.
But I think they have melee weapons. Will remove it.

My other 2 thralls which ported to the ground, I will use exactly what you posted. Lets see what happens.

Do your dancers have weapons in their inventory?

Yes, but I set them to attack nothing for now to be on the safe side, only left some daggers inside for the reason of “obsessive-compulsive-disorder” ^^

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Will try that for me dancer. Problem was: I have them on a pillar + triangle ceiling piece (hanging down from the ceiling) dancing within the outpost.
So I get the buffs inside and ontop at the maproom. But on both outposts, the dancer was on top. But with default setting.
Will change it to attack nothing and see what happens (they also have daggers in their inv :smiley: )

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Archers teleporting onto the ground

I did some testing using the:
– Attack everything
– Attack distance 50
– Chase distance 50
– Prefer ranged attacks
and with no weapon other than a bow in their inventory

Test 1: 1 archer with crenellations on the wedge pillar
a. natural spawn of a jaguar at the edge of the archer’s range: archer teleported up and back onto the wall behind her and attacked :x:
b. jaguar is still at his spawn point at the edge of the archer’s range: archer teleported up and back onto the wall behind her and did not attack :x:
c. jaguar is still at his spawn point at the edge of the archer’s range: archer teleported onto the ground and attacked :x:

Test 2: new archer, crenellations on wedge pillar removed
a. shaleback manually spawned in: archer attacked and remained on pillar :white_check_mark:
b. jaguar does not respect test conditions, respawned and moved closer to attack me: archer attacked and remained on pillar :white_check_mark:
c. shaleback manually spawned in: archer attacked and remained on pillar :white_check_mark:

Test 3: 2 archers on different pillars, no crenellations
a. shaleback manually spawned in: both attacked and remained on pillars :white_check_mark:
b. shaleback manually spawned in: both attacked and remained on pillars :white_check_mark:
c. shaleback manually spawned next to wall between pillars: both attacked and remained on pillars :white_check_mark:
d. shaleback manually spawned at edge of range: both attacked, as the shaleback moved further back out of range both teleported onto the ground :x:
e. shaleback manually spawned at edge of range: both attacked, 1 archer immediately telported onto the ground, the other telported up and back onto the wall behind her :x:

Test 4: 2 archers, no crenellations, behaviour changed from prefer ranged to stand and defend
a. shaleback manually spawned at edge of range: both attacked and remained on pillars :white_check_mark:
b. shaleback manually spawned at edge of range and pulled back out of range: both attacked, stopped when out of range and resumed attack when in range :white_check_mark:
c. shaleback manually spawned next to wall between pillars: 1 archer attacked and remained on pillar, other did not attack and teleported onto ground and still did not attack :x:
d. shaleback manually spawned in mid range and pulled next to wall and between pillars: both attacked, when moved close to the wall the same archer as in c teleported onto the ground and resumed attacking. :x:

Conclusion: Apart from the issue being inconsistent it looks like it degrades over time. Test 1 could have been the crenellations being an issue which is why they were removed. Test 2 was absolutely fine, test 3 (which used the archer from 2) started fine for the first 3 runs and then the issues kicked in. Test 4 used the same 2 archers with the behaviour changed, possibly refreshing their state, it also started off fine with the first 2 runs but then the teleporting started kicking in.

5 Likes

Very nice testing @Volainthe :heart_eyes:!
The question I have on that problem at the moment is:
Was it intended by the devs that there is no option in the current built for archers to stay where we place them? If not, then especially the “stand and defend” option is bugged?

I have a new theory, why my thralls don’t teleport down off my walls. All archers positions have stairs that lead downstairs and allow archers to go down if necessary. But they never actually do so. I noticed that when a nearby rotbranch boss attacks my base, the warrior thralls that are closer to the boss and that don’t have a quick way to get downstairs to engage in battle, they run to the nearest to their position stairs. But because of the nearest stairs are pretty far from the boss spawn point, by doing so they move far enough for the boss to get off their attack/chase distance. And after that the thralls simply move back to their position.

Probably this is the case. When the thralls don’t have an option to move, they teleport. But if you give them a ground to move freely, the AI will find the path, will take it, this will give them time to move off the attack/chase distance and won’t trigger the teleport sequence. And the thrall will simply move back to his/her position.

Test this :slight_smile:

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New and improved testing now with stairs!

Warning: many shalebacks and jaguars were harmed in the running of these tests

Conclusion: having a possible path to the ground definitely reduced teleporting, only one instance in the whole batch. With stairs down they pretty much stayed put even when their behaviour (prefer ranged instead of stand and defend) would permit them to come down stairs to maintain line of sight (los) which I considered a fail. When the stairs were removed and the wedge pillars raised to the height of the walls the archers would take a step back onto the wall when the test subject got too close which would break los and once again they would not use the path available to them to regain los. On only one occasion did they actually use the path to get back into los.

I would say that I think the archers are trying to maintain a minimum distance from their enemy. Without a path they were teleporting, when the stairs were there but there was an angry Jaguar on them archer 1 teleported over to archer 2 and then the ground. With the wedges being brought to the height of the wall they were taking the step back, possibly that was enough with the height of the wall to maintain distance but I didn’t run a huge number of tests.

Thing is when I first noticed the teleporting I had an entire 30 foundation long wall of archers all teleporting all over the place, the ground, on the wall and onto awnings so either they have a very extreme definition of personal space or this is just coincidence and not causation.

UPDATE: logged in to check the length of the wall and the Jaguar who lives outside my base was waiting for me, I suspect he is a bit fed up of being killed during my testing! He jumped me as soon as I went out of the gate so right next to the wall and the 2 archers who I had left on their pillars this time did not step back onto the wall, they had a bit of a think before they started attacking but they did attack and remained on their pillars. This was a fresh log in so it could still be a case of the issue getting worse over time?

Tests
2 archers once again with the settings
— Attack everything
— Attack distance 50
— Chase distance 50
— Prefer ranged attacks
(thrall doesn’t have melee weapon in his/her inventory)

Test 1: Stairs were built down from the wedge pillars providing them with a clear path down to the ground
a. shaleback in mid range: both attacked, shaleback went up the stairs to go for archer 2, archer 2 kept backing up but did not leave the pillar :white_check_mark:

b. shaleback close to wall: both attacked though archer 1 took a while to work up to it, both remained on pillars :white_check_mark:

c. shaleback at the edge of their range: both attacked and remained on pillars :white_check_mark:

d. jaguar manually spawned (lasts longer than a shaleback) at edge of range, pulled in and out of range: archers attacked, stopped when out of range and resumed when back in range, both remained on pillars :white_check_mark:

e. jaguar close to wall between pillars, pulled under stairs to break los, eventually pulled around corner completely out of los: both archers attacked and stopped when los broken, did not come down stairs to get los back, remained on pillars :x:

f. jaguar outside base respawned: archers attacked, jaguar went up stairs to archer 1, archer 1 teleported over to archer 2’s pillar and then teleported to the ground (did not use stairs) :x:

g. jaguar in los for archer 2, not in los for archer 1: archer 2 attacked and remained on pillar, archer 1 came down stairs to get los, once fight over returned to a spot on the ground to guard instead of returning to original position :x: (fail because while coming down the stairs to regain los is fine as he is prefer ranged and not stand and defend, he picked a new position on the ground for his guard spot instead of going back up the stairs to his original position)

h. jaguar in range pulled in and out of los: archers attacked when in los but stopped when los was broken, did not come down stairs and remained on pillar. :x:

Test 2: Stairs removed and another wedge placed on the pillar raising them to the height of the wall which has stairs to the ground giving the archers a clear path to the ground
a. shaleback in mid range: archers moved back onto the wall, had a ponder and then moved forward onto the pillars and started attacking, remained on pillars once attacking. :o: (Pass because they did attack but also a fail because only after having to discuss it amongst themselves)

b. shaleback close to the wall between the pillars: archers backed up onto the wall and never attacked :x:
c. shaleback at edge of range: both attacked and remained on pillars :white_check_mark:

d. jaguar respawned, started at range and was kited closed to the wall: archers initially attacked but when jaguar got too close to the wall backed up onto the wall and stopped attacking :x:

e. shaleback at edge of range, pulled in and out of range: archers attacked when in range and stopped when pulled too far, remained on pillars :white_check_mark:

Test 3: Behaviour changed to Stand and Defend
a. shaleback in mid range: archers attacked and remained on pillars :white_check_mark:

b. shaleback close to wall between pillars: both archers moved back onto the wall and did not attack :x:

c. shaleback in mid range for archer 1 and close range for archer 2: archer 2 moved back onto wall and did not attack, archer 2 attacked, when moved out of los for archer 1 stopped attacking but did not move from pillar, resumed attack when back in los :x:

d. shaleback at edge of range, pulled in and out of range: both archers attacked when in range and stopped when out of range, remained on pillars :white_check_mark:

5 Likes

Why this considered as fail? Archers did what their behaviour setting dictate.

Clearly the archer teleported because he had no room to get away from the jaguar.

Overall I consider this as success. What I learned is that we need to place archers so that all areas are visible for them.

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Hi there,

It was considered a fail because they had already started attacking the jaguar when they lost los but did not move in any way to try and regain it. If they had been on Stand and Defend then this would have been perfectly fine, they should be staying put however in test 2 they were on Prefer Ranged which suggests to me they should be able to move about. In the previous run 2.g the archer did come down the stairs, that one failed because he picked a random place to go guard afterwards instead of going back to where he was originally placed.

I agree he teleported because he had no way to path away from the Jaguar, as I mention in the conclusion it was the only time either archer did not have a clear path and was the only time the teleporting happened…in fairness considering how grumpy that jaguar has become I would be teleporting away from him as well!

3 Likes

I dont want my archer to randomly teleport arond in ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. Whats so hard to understand there?

I dont give him a fixed position for fun. I want him/her to be THERE.

2 Likes

All guarding thralls are moving through walls n foundations while engaging an npc, i have dancers on third floor who moved through several walls landing on the first while doors were closed.

Um… Above we learned what you need to do to prevent thralls from teleporting. We were discussing another issue …

No, there was still a circumstance where your archers ported. Yes, the 50m chase and 50m hit seems to fix 99% the cases, so that the damn archer doesnt teleport.

But we need a 100% solution!! I dont want my next archer to teleport herself again on spikes.

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