Time for a roll back, folks - all the way to pre-sorcery

[Mijin]

KorgFoehammer,

Your response seems to deflect from the core issues by generalizing the experience across all players and reducing genuine complaints to mere statistical fluctuations or misrepresentations. While it can be valuable to acknowledge the diversity of player experiences, it’s critical not to dismiss widespread concerns that have a substantial impact on the game’s playability and enjoyment.

Suggesting that the volume of complaints has remained constant, and therefore implies no exacerbation of issues, fails to address the qualitative nature of these complaints. It is anecdotal evidence at best to suggest that the number of complaints has remained the same, and at worst, it amounts to willful ignorance or misrepresentation. The severity and frustration levels associated with these issues have clearly increased as new and more numerous bugs have emerged in recent updates. Players’ tolerance for recurring problems can diminish over time, especially if they feel that the issues are being ignored or inadequately addressed.

@KorgFoehammer

If I was to talk about my experience, I have little problems, I dont play official servers, my game is heavily modded and I can fix pretty much anything that bothers me if it doesnt.

Nor do I. I’ve been running the most populated non-RP private server for the better part of a year. In the past, I played on a mix of private and official servers, but that’s a moot point.

@KorgFoehammer

What happens is: You might feel you have problems now that you did not had before, the same way a lot of people had problems before and still having the same problem today.

But my experience is not the game. As much as “YOUR” experience isnt either.

I am fully cognizant of the fact that the issue under discussion predated the most recent updates. As previously articulated, this problem has perennially existed, predominantly affecting those with excessively large databases. However, it was significantly exacerbated by the ‘Age of War Chapter III’ update, and consequently, it affected a broader spectrum of players who had not encountered these issues before. Subsequent updates, including ‘Age of War Chapter IV,’ have further aggravated this specific bug.

I proactively provided my source in an earlier post to substantiate that this is not merely a subjective perception; the issue is indeed widespread. I surmise that you may not have read my posts thoroughly, or perhaps we are encountering a communication barrier, potentially due to differences in linguistic backgrounds, yours probably being Russian or another Slavic language judging from your grammatical errors. Nonetheless, I must emphasize that this is not solely ‘my’ experience but rather the collective experience, according to the general consensus due to to the substantial increase in reports of this bug in recent updates.

@KorgFoehammer

The whole thing is: Taking statistics and frequency of reports in mind, the situation hasnt changed much since before AoS, because the number of complaints is pretty much the same, which lead one to think a few possible ways as in why that is the case:

• A lot of people who complained then stopped playing so they did not complained anymore.
• A lot of people complaining now wasnt playing at that time.
• There is, indeed, people who have complained then, and still complaining now.
• There are people with the bad faith of just posting things they hear about without even experiencing those things.

No matter how much other things can be drawn from it, one thing is for certain:
The exact same code that made a problem then, makes the problem now. It doesnt matter how much you “roll back” the problem wont go away, because it was present then.

One might not have been experiencing the problem then, but experiencing the problem now for a number of reasons, and very few of them lead to a simple conclusion that problem is worse.

You’re absolutely incorrect about this. I provided you a link showcasing the huge increase in reports of this bug here: Search results for 'falling through floors order:latest' - Funcom Forums, but just so there’s no deyning it, let’s actually break it down.

Duration: 2539 days
Number of posts: 82
Average posts per day: 82 / 2539 = 0.0323
After December 14, 2023 (Dec 14, 2023 - Apr 30, 2024):
Duration: 138 days
Number of posts: 10
Average posts per day: 10 / 138 = 0.0725
Percentage increase in the frequency of posts after December 14, 2023:
((0.0725 - 0.0323) / 0.0323) * 100 = 124.46%
The frequency of posts related to the "falling through the floor" issue increased by 124.46% after December 14, 2023, compared to the period before that date.

Duration: 2539 days
Number of posts: 82
Average posts per day: 82 / 2539 = 0.0323
After April 2, 2024 (Apr 3, 2024 - Apr 30, 2024):
Duration: 28 days
Number of posts: 6
Average posts per day: 6 / 28 = 0.2143
Percentage increase in the frequency of posts after April 2, 2024, compared to the period before December 14, 2023:
((0.2143 - 0.0323) / 0.0323) * 100 = 563.47%
The frequency of posts related to the "falling through the floor" issue increased by 563.47% after April 2, 2024, compared to the period before December 14, 2023.

Since the release of ‘Age of War Chapter III,’ there has been a 124.46% increase in the reports of this bug, and subsequent to ‘Chapter IV,’ the increase has surged to 563.47%. Thus, it is imperative to understand that this is not merely my subjective experience. The issue has demonstrably worsened. This phenomenon has been extensively documented not only here but also on the Conan Exiles Discord, and on other platforms such as the Admins United Discord and many others. Consequently, your assertion is unequivocally incorrect.

Furthermore, if that’s not proof enough, you can even see AndyB acknowledging the issue here: Age of War Chapter 4 + Hotfix Known Issues - Next Patch April 23

@KorgFoehammer

Another thing I have said a lot: A fundamental problem in the game manifests as much as systems building on that problem show up. If you have a thrall that does “4 things” and then is updated to do “8 things” but the system has a flaw in its core, for the player, there will be twice as many “complaints”, but that does not mean that there are twice as many problems.

It’s becoming clearer to me why you’re having a hard time grasping this.
In your argument, there’s a notable logical fallacy of equivocation regarding the use of the term “problems.” Initially, “problems” refer to a fundamental flaw within the system. As the argument progresses, the term shifts subtly to denote the player’s complaints about the system. This shift in definition creates an ambiguous premise.

In your hypothetical scenario when you suggest that a thrall updated to perform twice as many functions (from 4 to 8) will inevitably lead to twice as many complaints, yet argue that this doesn’t mean there are twice as many problems, you overlook a critical aspect. By doubling the functionality within a flawed system, you inherently increase the complexity and interaction of these functions. This increased complexity can indeed lead to new, distinct problems (each related to additional functionalities) and not merely an increase in the frequency of complaints about the same underlying issue.

Therefore, it’s entirely plausible, and even likely, that increasing a system’s complexity in the presence of an existing flaw does not merely double the complaints but also the actual problems themselves. Each new function added to a flawed system potentially introduces new issues, making it not just a matter of more complaints about old problems, but more complaints because there are new problems. Hence, addressing only the volume of complaints without considering the nature and number of underlying issues may lead to underestimating the actual scale of the problems within the game.

@KorgFoehammer

For example, given my work on solving this problem, I am aware that your sinking into foundations, dying when loging in on top of a building or placeable structure, your thralls not aware that they cant “float” in terrain holes, and the thrall’s inhability to find out that it cannot pass through the space between a rock and a wall if a “line” can pass through it, all originate from the single one flaw in the code. It comes a same way of data trace that is done wrong. It is buried under the hierarchy of code that comes up from “Master” code that many of the actors use to find out what is a surface and how it should be interacted.

As an amateur engaged merely with blueprints in the development kit, if you genuinely believe you have surpassed the entire professional development team in resolving an issue that they have yet to address effectively, then that is indeed remarkable. Congratulations on your achievement! I am merely curious as to why you have not released your mod to the public that rectifies this bug. I assure you, it would undoubtedly become the most downloaded mod on the Steam Workshop.

Your argument that the increasing frequency of bugs in the game merely reflects a singular, longstanding flaw in the code fails to convincingly address the escalating problem, and your use of procedural generation as a deflective analogy only muddies the waters further.

Firstly, the data does not lie: since the introduction of ‘Age of War Chapter III,’ reports of this bug have increased by 124.46%, and following ‘Age of War Chapter IV,’ the reports skyrocketed by an additional 563.47%. These statistics are not trivial numbers that can be waved away through anecdotal evidence of personal modding experiences or a theoretical understanding of the game’s architecture. They reflect a tangible and worsening experience for a significant portion of the player base.

Secondly, your assertion that these issues all stem from a single coding error that you’ve managed to navigate around by creating independent systems within the game’s modding framework comes across as both self-aggrandizing and disconnected from the practical gaming experience of the average player. While it’s commendable that you have found a workaround for these bugs in your modded environment (I’m vert skeptical, I think it’s most likely you aren’t experiencing it because you’re in single player), this is hardly a solution for the majority of players who do not have the ability, time, or inclination to engage with the game on a developmental level. They rely on the game’s developers to deliver a product that works consistently and reliably across updates.

Your reference to procedural generation and CGI as analogous to the game’s issues is misleading. While it’s true that many modern games rely on procedural generation, the quality and implementation of this technology vary widely. The core issue here isn’t the use of procedural generation per se, but how well it is implemented and integrated into the game. Procedural generation that leads to predictable, repetitive bugs is not a hallmark of quality game design; rather, it indicates a failure to appropriately manage and utilize the technology. Furthermore it’s not even clear that this is relevant to the conversation.

In essence, the significant increase in bug reports post-update cannot simply be explained away by a singular code flaw or justified by comparisons to procedural generation in other games. These are indications of a broader systemic failure that needs addressing. Efforts should be made to understand and rectify these issues at the fundamental level, rather than excusing them with comparisons to other technologies or self-reported and isolated modding successes.

@DeaconElie

Yes, that is why i can assure you only as very slim minority agree with Macdallan. And a few of them are their alts.

Well if you’re just going to hand wave away all of the evidence I prepared that already refuted this statement then we can’t really have a discussion about it.

@DeaconElie

And their alts.

These types of accusations, when not founded on evidence, often reveal more about the accuser’s internal struggles with authenticity and manipulation than about the accused, serving as a defense against recognizing these traits in themselves. You could be right though; I don’t know the person or your history together.

@DeaconElie

Pick any game, same can be said of them.

Sure, but typically the retention period is longer than a few days, and the percentage drop is more like 20-50% for 1 update. For every update here we’ve seen a decrease in both returning players after the update, and more players leaving the update.

If we continue to project outward, assuming there are zero major issues with the next content update in July, which will be unlikely given the history, the downward trend will continue:

July 2024 (Projected): 9,894.4 average players
August 2024 (Projected):
9,894.4 * (1 - 0.2664) = 7,257.8 average players

And that’s being optimistic.

@DeaconElie

Because that is the result you are looking for.

That goes both ways.

@DeaconElie

Or finished the battle pass and went back to serial refreshing.

I think it would be safter to make that assumption if it weren’t for the issues we’re all very aware of, or should be at least. Remember the update that banned 3/4 of the players by mistake not too long ago? I’d bet that had more to do with the decline in players than people finishing up their battle pass. Not to mention those UI changes everyone loves so much, and so much more.

@DeaconElie

How? There is no comparison. Chapter 1 introed everything, added tons of content to the game. Chapter 4 is just clean up.

Chapter 1 didn’t introduce hardly anything actually. They added clan emblems, the hord system that couldn’t even be used yet because the new purge system wasn’t implemented until chapter 2, and some contentious combat rebalancing.

@Taemien

What are you talking about? They don’t need to make squat. The decision to update the server requires the owner to update it manually. They don’t update themselves. They require a command in the steam console to update. Clicking the update button in TCAdmin. Or checking a box in the Dedicated Server Launcher. Funcom cannot even change this. All of those methods require a command being sent to steam to manually update.

While you’re technically correct. The user, and subsequently everyone playing on the server would have to manually disable updates on their client, and no one new would be able to join without manually downgrading. The server would die.

I don’t think rolling back would ever be considered, or is a practical solution, but I do think voicing dissatisfaction with the current state has it’s value, as long as things remain constructive.