I was absolutely hyped for the introduction of two-handed axes. Absolutely hyped.
I run a server but haven’t had a lot of play time lately, and this latest update and DLC were a big point for me to look forward too…
…and then I realized, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the funcom developers have never handled a battle axe in real life even for a moment.
The heaviest historical two handed axes cap out at around 7lbs, (including the indo-persian ones that most of your models are based off of) which is about the same as the heaviest German zweihander great swords. The Dane axe is about 4 lbs.
You guys have it in your heads that battle axe blades are big, thick, chunky and hammer like. They are most definitely not. Not in any historical period I am aware of. The blades are usually very thin. Remember, battle axes, both one and two handed, were pan-culturally lighter than their tool equivalents, yet look at how much faster picks and hatchets swing!
Anyway, historicity aside (and don’t you dare lecture me on this being fantasy or I’ll be forced to believe you don’t understand Robert E. Howard at all) I own a myriad multitude of axes and hammers, both tool and combat, and none of them really do the momentum swing (with my 220lb frame) until you hit about the 12 lb sledge mark.
I would never call this fantasy. Even sitting on my thrown of hand built sandstone i farmed and carried in one trip, i would never bring up fantasy. Never, as i re-spawn after i get ganked by the great towns people of Asagarth. I would never summon an Avatar of fantasy on your thought process.
So why make all the other weapons conform more or less to the confines of reality in their physical attributes, but crap the bed on two handed axes like the devs only memory of holding one was a 6 lb wood splitter on grandpa’s farm as 10 year old child?
Lets dual wield great swords and having throwing hammers and laser nunchucks.
No, they have a connection to reality with the other weapons, so why not great axes?
I dont mind the battle axe having a spin element - BUT - it has to be optional. If i’m wielding a massive ■■■■■■■■■ axe, I want to be doing heavy chops. If i want to go all ridiculous in the middle of a group sure, maybe spin to win, but the primary mechanics should be based on chopping.
Whoever decided to base it only on spinning only needs to stop drinking basically.
Fantasy weapons, or historical fiction weapons, are often ridiculously heavy. Even some modern-day replica swords are stupidly heavy. Allegedly, the sword Arnold used to train swordplay for the Conan the Barbarian movie weighed 11 lbs!
Fantasy weapons, whether video games, Warhammer miniatures, anime or whatever, tend to be massively oversized because of the “cool” factor. Personally, I much prefer the coolness of realistic weapons.
Lastly, Howard himself describes weapons in his stories as being unrealistically heavy. It’s really kinda crazy how historians and history enthusiasts managed to imagine weapon and armor weights for decades, instead of, you know, going to a museum and measuring the mass of an actual historical object. Even some tabletop RPGs from the 80’s and 90’s have two-handed swords weighing 15 to 20 lbs.
I’m always happy to find a game or a piece of fiction that gets historical weapons and armor right. Conan has, unfortunately, never been one of these, not in Howard’s books, not in the movies, and not in Conan Exiles.
Just be thankful it isn’t Robert Baratheon’s hammer from A Game of Thrones, which was supposedly so heavy a strong man could barely lift it, yet King Bob could use it as a weapon.
Umm… Other weapons DON’T confirm to reality. They all play to the fantasy tropes. And Howard defined those tropes in his work. I would go so far to say it’s YOU who doesn’t understand Howard
The majority of the models for the axes in Conan: Exiles have real world counter parts, from which weights can be established. In fact the conan version of the one I posted should hypothetically be lighter due to having cutouts.
Consistent physics in a fantasy setting are important in establishing versimilitude/relatability. The two handed axe heavy attack physics are currently an aberration from the rest of the rules established, breaking consistency. I mean, the physics of the heavy attack aren’t even consistent with those of the light attack, (the light attack being closer to actuality, but too slow.) Pretty sure the axes are even slower than the warhammers which are arguably quite accurate.
Robert E. Howard wrote historical fiction made fantasy. There were no elves and dwarves and Tolkienesque races, just various historical settings jammed together and given alternate names, then injected with elements of the supernatural or primordial (often blended), but the historical inspiration was primary.
Robert E Howard’s works predate Tolkein’s by about two decades, and draws on a blend of classic greek mythology through the lens of the 20s and 30s. “Fantasy Races” wouldn’t be a thing until the late 50s with Tolkein’s Nordic-inspired mythology.
there are a lot of physics that don’t match reality. The weight is not a true weight as well, it is more for game balance and penalty vs usage. the weight is to prevent one from carrying everything, unless you go full enc. build. This is discussed through out the forums early on with arrows, potions, food, etc. Yes, is it fantasy the way weapons are set up in general. Yes. But games should not always reflect reality to the point of not allowing us to escape and fantasize. Madden foorball comes to mind. I have more fun with Tecmo Bowl 3 than i do with Madden. Why? because Madden tries too hard to be real, and in the end feels less fun than the quick little game of football chess that is Tecmo Bowl and my mighty sprites on screen. Keep realism out of my games please, i work 60 hours a week in the real world. I want to be 10 again and enjoy fantasy to relieve my stress.
You are absolutely right, but part of the point I am making which you are still missing is that, be what they may, fantasy rules should still be consistent with themselves and right now two handed axes, evem on the light attack, are swinging slower than hammers by a noticeable amount.
How many times can I rephrase this? It isn’t about realism, it is about form. Even loosely based on reality, a sledgehammer or heavy club should not swing faster than a battle axe
I think we all agree on the the axe feeling too slow, but i what lost people is you phased in the realism comparison. We are saying it is not about realism, but about balance, and thus got sideways on the fact we agree. The stream they talked about tweaking the new weapons once they are in the game and have had a more robust testing done to get accurate feed back, along with the reasons they are defining weapons into class type game play, vs trying to make them all Swiss army knives of combat. Sometimes a simple " 2H axe feels like it swings to slow for the light, and the heavy seems gimmicky" is better than a thesis on why it shouldn’t be that way, and how games in general fail to match real historical data on weapons.
But the game is at least loosely based on reality.
Hunger, Thirst, Heatstroke, Frost Bite.
Where did the idea of each weapons particular function come from? Lets explore a few examples.
The short sword and spear: Tight rank and file conditions such as in Greco-Roman armies necessitated weapons designed for quick, direct thrusting. Side to side momentum was impossible to achieve, so hacking and slashing were not the focus. The spear provided range, and the short sword was used when the range was too close for a spear. Funcom’s profiles for these weapons both clearly reflect their real world counter-parts… especially with the recent change to the pike’s light attack.
Great-swords: Used primarily from the 15th century on, improvements in armor meant shields were becoming increasingly less important in Europe. Combat had opened up somewhat, and a great sword was a multi functional weapon that could be thrust tightly like a short spear, or swung in a broad arc as a shock weapon. In a sense, it was an amalgamation of the roles of spear and battle axe. Again, funcom proceeds with a general understanding of this.
