I’ve ran this dungeon a 100 times since it’s release and it was never this stupidly hard And the thrall nerfs have his this dungeon too hard making it impossible. I tried running it literally with my strongest thrall, best buffs, and i can’t out DPS the damage the boss causes. It’s BS. Tried suggestions how the well trained perk is supposed to make thralls solo this place. Nope. I did my best in my build to try to fight this boss and it’s just too hard. Or inbalanced.
This thrall i tried doing it with. I listened to folk when they say the “well trained” perk is best. It isn’t this thrall got to 1000hp before i died. And the boss still had about 5000hp left. There’s isn’t enough damage being done. Why?
AOE deals too much damage to thralls.
Boss has too much HP (Needs Nerfing like other bosses)
The mini skeleton bosses in the dungeon deal too much damage.
Thrall nerfs have made solo play harder, while groups are at a advatnage.
Dungeon is balanced for pre Age of Sorcery/Age of War Balance.
sauce thralls or items or grind forever. Nerf the damn dungeon already warmaker/Unamed city isn’t this level of bullshirt
I disagree. I think the changes have made most parts of the game super easy, where the Wine Cellar requires a little bit of strategy and forethought, I think the difficulty is set just right. I ran it solo (with 1 thrall) 6 times earlier this week, each time I got into a bit of trouble which almost killed my thrall, and each time, I felt exhilarated when Thag died and my thrall lived (once with less than 200 HP remaining). The Wine Cellar creates that kind of stress and relief that they were aiming for and I think it is perfect as is. Well, maybe not perfect, the Mace of Thag needs a buff as suggested by @Tephra here:
By the way, when I was running solo I was doing it with a level 20 Relic Hunter that has 3k health, so not the best tank and certainly not the best damage option.
No offense, but it looks like the problem is with what you consider to be “your best”, rather than with the difficulty of this boss or the balance.
Before writing my reply, I went into Wine Cellar to see if they changed anything special. I was not only able to complete the dungeon without any difficulties, I found it easier than before, thanks to the stamina changes. There was a moment where a lag spike made me eat the AOE damage, which got me almost surrounded by wights. Before the update, I would’ve most likely died due to the combination of stun lock and AOE, but now I was able to roll like Sonic and get out of danger.
So I don’t know if there’s something wrong with the way you fight, or with your spec, or your gear, or something else, but what I do know that Thag doesn’t need nerfing at all.
Are you leaving the fight to your thrall or are you participating? Have you even tried it without a thrall?
I swear this is always the answer! Fight things yourself, get accustomed to dodging, you will see that most fights aren’t difficult at all, and the few difficult one are still quite manageable @LZB_Gattsu
→ Really when you start doing things solo (no thrall) and you learn the very few attack patterns of bosses, Rockslide used to make me sweat a bit, now he is a free poke and roll fight with a spear
• Does your Thrall have enough self-healing from food?
• Boss sure has a lot of HP, but it is an end-game dungeon (it is the last on the Dongeon Delver journey btw)
• The 1 Skull Bosses are Glass Canon, fight them yourself, dodge, they die in 5 hits from a legendary with a proper build.
• I personally never found Thralls to be really good because they are dumb. About solo vs. group, playing full solo makes aggro reliable, enemies will always go for you and thus they are predictable. Group play (including with a thrall) means you have to be careful about aggro swap (you can also exploit it in some cases)
• Dungeon is one of the only challenges left in the game. That’s just my view, but making everything extremely easy to take on and letting Thralls do everything isn’t exactly what I would call “balanced”.
Also, Thag doesn’t even hit that hard, he just has a variety of moves and summons.
→ On that note, the real threat in Thag’s fight is when he summons a horde of skeletons. You have multiple ways to deal with it, mine is simply to run around to get the skeletons on me while Thag lags behind, then I kill the skeletons (Katana is my best AoE option for that), then after everything is clean I go back to Thag; of course, it’s a different story with a Thrall because aggro becomes more chaotic and your follower might get stunlocked and die. Overall, I recommend soloing this fight, but I’ve done it with followers as well and it works (with friendly fire at full damage by the way, so have to be careful not to kill my follower myself too!)
I have to repeat, this is an end-game dungeon and I’m actually sad that the Warmaker’s dungeon is not on par with it…
The Arena Champion is just another human, you can stunlock her to death, or send her to the ground with a full Axe/Sword combo, and repeat until she dies (just need a bit of grit to get a full combo). Meanwhile the True Champion of the Warmaker has a cool moveset (but sometimes he keeps repeating the same move over and over making things too easy) and enough HP for the fight to last, but he legitimately hits like a wet noodle.
Thag is basically the only boss left to pose a challenge, because he has a good moveset, enough damage to be a threat, enough HP to use his moveset, and summons to top it off.
2LA, 2HA with a mace and shield and you’ll send the AC flying without needing to invest a point in gritt. While she gets up, your bar is full. Rinse and repeat.
You’re not reading what i wrote. And youre making me seem like im an idiot.
Ive been very clear on this. You must be just reading the topic title and then not bothering to understand what happened.
Its not my lack of skill. I brought my best thrall, my best combat build, 30 aloe potions, food, healing arrows. And the fight resulted. I have 5000 hours in this game, ive done this dungeon more times. I know boss encounter like the back of my hand.
Me and the thrall werent doing enough damage to the damage sponge of the boss
The thrall stands there in the aoe and loses half its hp before the skeletons even arrive. There isnt enough damage output being done when im constantly having to jump to avoid the circles. And thrall is being juggled in the air repeatedly doing naff all.
This dungeon was never this hard before. I did what folk kept hammering about. How to bring one strong thrall than two weaker ones, i had potions and food on me.
I repeat, this boss and the dungeon itself has not been balanced or adjiated its just rng.
This is just funcom punishing solo players. Ill just do it in a group with like 2 other players and thralls and beat it i like 3 minutes. And the it will be a cakewalk because balance doesnt exist. Shouldnt have to lose 1 thrall each time i do this boss. Simply because the mechanics.
Dungeon was hard, endgame i know because ive done it 100 times before age of war.
I mean, you have several people telling you they’re having no problems with the boss fight. It’s not just one or two of us.
I’d say it’s pretty clear it’s a skill issue. Either you’re not as skilled as you believe, or somehow all of us here are extraordinarily skilled.
I don’t think I’m extraordinarily skilled at all, so my own inclination is to doubt your skill there.
No, they aren’t. I’ve been playing solo for literally years now. Hell, I don’t even take a thrall with me, unless I’m farming.
I had less trouble soloing Thag since the Age of War started, than in Age of Sorcery, thanks to the stamina changes.
No thrall, no buddies, just me, on an official server.
Well, of course. I can’t think of any PVE fight that won’t be over in 3 minutes or so if you have 3 players and 3 thralls. That’s 6 combatants right there, what exactly do you expect?
And you won’t, if you don’t bring the thrall into that fight.
And yet, you’re relying on your thrall to help you fight Thag. That alone makes it clear that there’s something wrong either with your “best combat build”, or your gear, or your skill.
Damn, I wonder how I could quote and answer each point of your bucket list without even reading it…
I am SS Tier at making people look stupid
Jokes aside, I don’t know you at all, I haven’t seen your gameplay, so do not take the following statement personally because really I have no idea how you play: Amount of Time Played ≠ Skill.
→ I have played many games with a Ranked Ladder, and there is a thing we call Bronze Warriors.
Bronze, in this case, is the lowest possible rank in the ladder, and a Bronze Warrior is a player who has a massive amount of time played, but is still beyond awful at the game.
One’s play time indicates that they know about the game, but it doesn’t mean anything about their skill or lack of skill. “Madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result.” A Bronze Warrior is someone who doesn’t adapt to get better, they keep repeating the same mistakes with the same playstyle, and they obviously keep failing, for a massive amount of time in-game.
I’m curious about the build, because maybe you got accustomed to something you think is good, or that actually was good before but which currently is not as good anymore?
In any case, I can’t say anything about your build if I don’t know it, but I will at lest provide my basic solo PvE build for reference:
Any Light/Medium Armor with Agility Weapon Damage Buffs.
Don’t need Heavy Armor because if you get hit by something huge, Steel Thewed limits it. Only need to watch out for DoT like Bleed and Poison, and high damage multi-hits like Rotbranch’s spin attack if you’re at its feet.
Before the Age of War, things did not hit hard, taking damage was not punishing at all, thus with high armor a Thrall was basically unkillable.
In the Age of War, they buffed most mobs’ damage, so now taking damage is punishing, and on top of Thralls being nerfed, they also are freaking stupid and will always take the damage upfront making them less viable overall.
Pre Age of War, a player got punished by running out of stamina. Thralls did not have this issue, they were never punished in PvE.
In Age of War, a player gets punished by taking damage. Thralls do have this issue, and now they are punished in PvE.
The game’s most punishing factor has shifted, thus the endgame has changed. That’s how I see it anyway.
Edit:
Healing Arrows are unfortunately a joke.
→ For the player, you just dodge most of the damage and you can disengage, heal with a potion, re-engage.
→ For followers, the healing amount is not significant enough.
↳ If you’re really looking to heal your Thrall, you need either Enhanced Gruel or Exotic Feast as food for 9 or 10 HP regen per second (don’t neglect this)
And since you’re running an Authority Build, you pick up Commanding Presence and get in there to both deal damage and heal your thrall.
For your gear, go full Skelos Cultist Master crafted with a T4 for increased Follower and Agility damage. Then of course, pick up a Legendary Agility Weapon, invest some points in Agility (I recommend maxing it out) and you suddenly have a lot of damage that will also heal up your Thrall.
To try and balance this small HP pool, is crazy. I think they forgot about winecellar and also the sunken city, some one skullz there have to much HP and hit like a friggin truck.
It’s a great build, @SpherisCore buit I suspect it might be hard for him to use it. It’s very dependent on knowing how to time our actions.
@LZB_Gattsu , I’ll give you a few tips.
First, forget about authority. Take a disposable thrall, one you don’t mind losing. He will be a minor help to attract aggro.
Then go full strenght, full agiility and full vitality, as if you were going for a pvp fight. I prefer half vitality, half grit to push a little more, but it’s a little safer with full vitality. The reason I am not telling you to use steel thewed, is because you can be hit four times relatively fast in some situations in that dungeon.
Chose any perks you want, but second skin (you won’t be going crazy on combos because of stamina) and rolling thrust are mandatory. You want as much armor pen as you can get.
I hope you have a shieldright to make your amor. If you don’t, use what you have. Let’s turtle you up and buff your strenght.
You want a redeemed helmet, dragonbone ribs, champion leggings, godbreaker grips and perfected heavy sabatons.
Now bulk plate all that. That’s why you use second skin. You should be over 1.8k armor now.
Make a potion to buff strenght and you can choose a food yo buff whatever you prefer. If you want to be in the green whatever the weapon you take, for mobility sake, make a lasting feast.
You need high dmg, high ap weapons so I recommend using the momentum mace. It is very heavy. Slap a master weapon kit on it and you’ll get more dmg and ap. Choose the Akbitanan shield because it weights very little.
Take a Baal-pteor’s Razor as a side weapon. You might need it to cut through mobs. It’s weightless, it hits like a truck BUT it’s an agility weapon. You have full Agility, but your armor is buffing strenght. If you prefer to make use of that buf in a 2h weapon, take the Baall-Pteor’s Lodstone. Slap a master weapons kit on the razor or a fencer kit on the lodstone. You can take both, if you want. They won’t add anything to your weight. The lodstone is very good against skeletons. Just be very careful with your stamina because 2h hamners easily put you in negative stamina terrain and you’ll be a sitting duck if that happens.
Don’t be stingy in aloe potions. Put some in your thrall. If you have enough aloe, go for the good stuff.
I advise making a visit to the tortured king to stock up on his bandages. These will be great to heal your thrall between fights, provided he survives the first, which he should. For the thrall you can make an armor just like yours, but a perfected heavy with bulk plating is more than enough. DON’T forget to put food on his inventory. Any high regen food will do. Take some for you too.
So, how well do you know that dungeon? If you know it very well, run until the end. The thrall will teleport there. Kill the skeletons at the entrance.
To fight Thag, there’s not much science. He’s slow. Just make sure you heal if you get hit. Don’t forget to roll to take advantage of rolling thrust.
Once he summons the blues, take care of them. Send your thrall to fight Thag while you clear the blues. Then go for Thag too. Try not to get projected into the air. This is the most important thing you need to watch for, especially if you have blues in the room. It’s not hard. Just don’t go crazy in there and think.
Then make the dungeon reversed, after defeating thag. It’s a little easier.
By the way, if you really want to go full authority, choose well trained and take a Thugra in the armor I said with a momentum mace. He’ll kill Thag so fast he won’t even have time to summon the blue, according to @Xevyr tests. Then go for the rest of the dungeon methodically.
Meh… The easiest way to do wine cellar is 3 berserker zombies with well trained all full of feral flesh. Just set their attack radius as max and leisurely stroll through the city getting all the loot boxes. The thag fight…just have them attack that while you dance around the club floor trying to get the wight attention. It’s a boring play after the third time but it is easiest.
Is it bad that I stopped making potions at the Alchemist Bench and only carry Aloe Leaves to craft the lowest tier on me now?
But you’re right, a Concentrated or Pure Aloe extract will top off your HP in no time, especially with Fast Healer. I would personally recommend only using the Pure ones for bossfights though, but that’s actually being stingy with Alchemical Base
With the second perk in vit to heal double any potion will do, @SpherisCore . But the best ones are better so he doesn’t have to worry about crafting. The advantage of your approach is weight/stock management. You can carry a lot of aloe that only becomes heavy when you craft potions.
Really the most fun is the city. You hear your boys and you hear all the agro but you don’t see it and within 5 minutes, they are all right behind you, like a pack of hunting dogs waiting for the treat.
I also always forget the zombies, and how you can have 3 of them following you
They’re in the same line as Legendary Weapons, easy to acquire, they hit quite hard and are discard-able
Here is some gameplay to give an idea. Of course if you’re on a laggy server, it’s a bit different.
I’m not even caring, just rolling around to abuse Rolling Thrust, I started fighting with Whirlwind Blades instead of a Legendary Weapon
At one point I even just spam roll + first attack a few times because it’s just free, I don’t see the difficulty.
→ Only difficult part was when Thag summoned the whole army in 3 seconds, I could go out of my way to cleat those with the Whirlwind Blades or the Tulwar of Amir Khurum, but you can see how quickly the go down with Musashi’s Black Blade, so why bother?
I got hit by a pattern on the floor once when he summoned skeletons, but during rolling animation, so I only took the damage (mitigated by Steel Thewed) without getting sent flying (which I would have survived because Resurgence would proc if the skeletons got me low, and I could just roll away and heal up)
It’s harder for less skilled fighters, @SpherisCore . They get hit a lot and lack situational awareness. It’s safer to have the highest armor possible and a shield. The mace is the 1h weapon with the highest ap. AP is fundamental there. That’s why buffing strenght weapons dmg is helpful. You can’t think they will fight as you do. The katana, my favorite weapon, is not the easiest to use.
In the end, they need a forgiving build that allows them to spam attacks and take some punishment. Forget about finesse.
