Thanks, that was an even more comprehensive description of the problems with daggers. So what would be an acceptable solution?
To me, as an armchair game designer who doesn’t PVP seriously, it seems like Funcom should implement some good counters for the IOS daggers. Those counters could be anything: a potion you could drink, or a sigil you could apply, or a bit of armor you could wear, or even replacing one of the less useful perks (e.g. Waste Not) with something better. Whatever it is, it would have to provide some specific bonus that would nullify the effects of IOS daggers.
I want to illustrate the idea of what I mean by “counter” by throwing a completely crazy idea on the table, an idea that I haven’t thought through, an idea that would probably be horrible for all sort of reasons I can’t think of because I lack PVP knowledge. I’m not proposing this as an actual solution, I just want to explain what I mean by “counter”: what if there was a buff whose effect is to regenerate your stamina faster if you’re poisoned?
Again, that’s not an actual proposal. It’s just something I wanted to use to point out that we keep thinking of nerfing this or that, which takes choices away, when we could be proposing counters, which would add choices.
In game theory terms, a meta is a dominant strategy. When there’s one meta, one strictly dominant strategy, players get frustrated – and good game designers, too. But there are different ways to change the game so there’s not a single strictly dominant strategy. Nerfs do that by reducing how effective that strategy is, but that usually only results in another strictly dominant strategy emerging.
If, on the other hand, you can change the game so there’s more than one dominant strategy, players now have choices. Even if it’s just two metas, at least not everyone plays the same way.
Not completely rock papper scisssors but at least some percentile differences or such so that skill can still be a factor in it but there is a clear weakness but there is a potential of winning even with the weakness with skill (not just left click) but whatever it needs (counter the weakness with manuevering or what have you)
Agreed. I often count the metas available, after my own research to other missed possible ones as well, to determine the health of the competitive environment of a game before I purchase it or even consider playing it if free to play.
Too few strategies for victory I have seen are the downfail of many would be popular competitive games.
Back before we stopped interacting with each other in public except for quite negatively, I had this exchange. A very large and muscly man in a long grey goatee rapped on my window and said “can you move your car.”
I answered “I’m on a stakeout, go f*ck yourself.” He says “no problem.” I say “no problem? You’re the buster who walked up to my car.”
“No problem” means “hey, it doesn’t make me mad.” In many cases, there’s no reason for the impolite asker to get mad about anything they’ve demanded of me.
I’m in the “online order” line. A guy jumps in ahead of an older woman in the “order here” line at the pot shop. He says he’s there with another party who looks quite uncomfortable with the exchange. I tell him to get to the back before I tell them to put coal in his stocking. He says “no problem” and goes to the back of the line. (This is appropriate. He should be mad, he demanded my compliance and I refused.)
Still doesn’t take away the fact that you could practically descend onto any server and play to the end with only spinny/flippy/bleedy daggers.
Thanks for explaining. I understand the confusion now. We have a fundamentally different understanding of the phrase “no problem”. You understand it as rude and we understand it as polite. I’m not sure where or how the meaning diverged, but it’s interesting and I’ve never met anyone who thought it was a rude phrase. I’m curious to know where you were raised that views “no problem” as a rude phrase. I’d guess somewhere in Britain
Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion. I was trying to understand your perspective. I’ve been nothing but cordial. Is it because I presented an opposing view to your dagger opinion?
To be honest, I’ve said it before, Funcom should abandon PvP. It causes needless division, and most of y’all have no idea what any of us are talking about.
I missed it too. Thanks for highlighting it, because “no stamina drain” sounds like a serious balance problem.
Evidently:
I mean, I get that it might seem like we’re argumentative, but wanting an actual explanation instead of “trust me, I’m an expert” is no sin.
I hate adding to the off-topic discussion, but language and its usage fascinates me. I’ve read somewhere that, in United States, there’s a generational difference in how they reply to “thank you”. Apparently, the younger generations respond with “no problem”, whereas older generations say “you’re welcome”. And the explanation I read was that the younger generations see helping out as something expected of them, whereas the older generations see it as a favor they’re doing.
I have no idea how much truth there is in this, and I’m not originally from United States anyway, so I’m not really invested in this whole “boomer vs. millenial” discussion they have, but it’s an interesting theory. It just goes to show that two seemingly innocuous words like “no problem” could be interpreted in drastically different ways depending on when and where you were brought up.
Being argumentative is the whole point of getting to an actual solution of a problem. Do you think everyone should just automatically agree with you just because you believe your opinion is correct? If you can’t clarify your position when asked about them then how can anyone be persuaded to agree with you? You’re trying to convince people that there is a problem with daggers yet at least half of the community disagrees. Does that mean they’re all just argumentative? BTW I agree with some of the problems presented with daggers. There’s nuance here and that is what any honest person is trying to decipher.
Yeah, okay, I give up. I didn’t expect this at all, and it’s depressing.
For the record, if it really is so subjective that we can’t understand it, then there’s no justification for telling us to shut up when we say we don’t want nerfs. After all, it’s subjective, so we might as well express our subjective opinions and any real debate is useless…
I’m done with this thread. Oh, and @Chaoruk, I hope you’re paying real close attention about how PVE players are piling up on PVP players here and silencing them.
I think I do alright with figuring it out but I don’t see company officially taking sides like that beneficial at all. I love ideas out of the PVE. It motivates me to be creative. However I cannot deny the cold calculations and functionality of PVP and the thrill of potentially loosing it all. Nothing can spot the weaknesses of new revisions faster than a bunch of folks trying to gain an edge against eachother using said revisions. No I don’t see this is a PVE vs PVP thing as more of a regression in empathy as a whole. It’s prevalient in politics, religion, nationalities, etc etc etc,…why would we expect it to not be present in this game? Sides are drawn and folks get pissy because “they” don’t understand “us”. I don’t believe that we should let slights go by the wayside either (the idea of PVP talk) …if you are ticked, you should be able to voice that…eventually, i hope, both sides gain better understanding and can relate now. The only pet peeve I have in coms between PVP and PVE is “bro”…I haven 't a clue how the heck this got to be this pervassive in PVP but holy heck…it’s like reliving gym class.
I don’t want to depress you, but if I were commenting on the best racquet for Professional 1v1 Tennis and had no experience with said skill, I might be out of my element.
I’ll happily talk about the finer points of American rudeness and further explain why knives are unfair to PvP players and not PvE players, but this isn’t the topic for that.
The topic is these blades need love and attention, which I’ll assert more now than ever.
