POLL=> Should the Lifeblood Spear and Sword of Crom be Restored to their Original Values?

It has now become overwhelmingly obvious that this topic is not going to simply go away. I think I can safely say that I am not the only one who has noticed, that almost every time I check the Forum, there is another thread discussing this issue. That to me this only reinforces the issues importance. We all have valid viewpoint on this issue, regardless of which side of the debate we espouse, and most of us have expressed it. Now I would like to see some numbers on this issue. The question before us as a community is:

Should the Lifeblood Spear and Sword of Crom be restored to their original (pre-nerf) regeneration and damage values?

  • YES the Lifeblood Spear and Sword of Crom should be restored to their original values.
  • NO the Lifeblood Spear and Sword of Crom are fine as they are now.

0 voters

3 Likes

What if one falls somewhere in between? Acknowledging there was a problem, but also feeling that the current nerf was too harsh? Now as a PvE player I never felt there was that much of a problem (scarcity being a factor anyway) but:

for better or worse we’re forced to play a somewhat schizophrenic game that tries to balance very different modes indeed within the same settings.

6 Likes

Sooo…then what would you suggest as a hypothetical third option here Mikey…? Half the value of the nerf? Genuine question, no rudeness intended. I suspect an ‘on the fence’ option would have only made everyone select ‘on the fence’, like with the More Land or More Dungeons poll. No, we need a clear cut answer, not an ambiguous one.

I guess I would ask myself this. Were you happy or dissapointed with the decision to nerf these 2 weapons when it first happened?

So if thralls are given a stamina bar, you would be fine with the Sword of Crom being restored to its original values?

I see you frequently calling for vampiric drain on the Lifeblood Spear Zerog, and I respect your views. For the record I do like the idea. However, this may well make its regenerative powers even greater than before. Spears are great at striking multiple opponents at once. If Im hitting 2-4 enemies at once, how much faster do you estimate it would fill my health bar…!? Perhaps I am wrong, but I predict you would soon afterwards call for the vampiric drain effect to be nerfed! Sorry.

I quibbled with others about their polls, I’m not going to refrain just because I like you, @Croms_Faithful. This is not a “fair” or balanced way of constructing a poll. The way this one operates is set to divide and identify respondents as members of one camp vs another.

Furthermore, the options are a lot like going to the dentist and she says “all right Mr Faithful you have two choices: a root canal and crown, or I just go ahead and pull all 12 teeth on that side. Which do you want?”

Crom should stay as it is. LS should be tuned with better regen. I’m confident this will happen in a post-vacation balance pass.

4 Likes

I said restore them because with the addition of new, more powerful weapons to the game these 2 weapons are now useless. It is almost a moot point now and the meta has shifted. Restoring these 2 weapons to their previous glory will not be OP any longer. These 2 weapons are no longer relevant and IMO restoring them will not be as “gamebreaking” (air quotes because we still played the broken game just fine) as it was previously.

3 Likes

Barnes, you are dead on. If you wanted to do this poll correctly, you should have not paired the Lifeblood and Crom’s Sword together.

I am familiar with the changes to the Lifeblood. What was changed on Crom’s Sword?

5 sec delay when equipped by thrall

Actually, this is a terrific idea. Make the weapon not an idle boon, but something that you actually have to use to get the effect.

As for which option, I like option B better, actually. In order to measure a % of total damage dealt, and turn that into a specific amount of healing, I would expect that would require another game “system.” For them to incorporate option B, all they would have to do is incorporate a limited duration healing tick. Like what you get from food, or other consumables.

1 Like

Ugh. That’s pretty bad. I see what you all mean. Those changes will relegate it to the weapon display rack, and now it will only be “pretty.”

1 Like

Maybe The Sword could lose the combo all together, and just do the final attack animation of heavy. This has a pause effect after wards, and makes it hard to spam for thralls. For players it would still be 100% stamina drain, but for thralls the 2 seconds may be all i need to roll out of the way.

LBS, have it do a 10 ticks per second, 10 second, not stack-able. So if only does the regen if you have no other health regen (outside of passive 30 perk) going. 50 HP while doing battle is decent, and technically 1 strike, roll and let it regen can be a decent heal. And stops if you take damage, so no spamming attacks with “invulnerable heal effect”. And the timer doesn’t get refreshed with any dmg done during the 10 seconds.

1 Like

The life blood spear needs a bit of a buff but the crom sword was too OP on thralls in its original form.

1 Like

I don’t know exactly what, I just know that neither of those two options really represent what I think would be the best choice. While I was fine with both items as first implemented, I also acknowledge that this was due to my choice of playmode and -style, and as long as PvE and PvP are bound together at the hip (which is likely “forever”) we’re going to have to find middle ground. While I think it’s too bad that we can’t have fun items like original Crom’s or LBS in PvE and simple have those items not exist in (official) PvP servers, that’s unfortunately just “how it is”.

If I had to pick one of these two, I’d go with the selfish option and pick “restore to original”, but I don’t think that has a snowball’s chance in hell of happening really. So I’m voting neither, for the moment, and just following along.

1 Like

This is part of the reason I’m so salty about it though. MOST of the weapons introduced in the UC update were gimmicks. When wielded by a thrall, the SoC was one of the few bright spots, and now it’s just another trap/joke weapon. :tired_face:

If it’s that much an anathema in certain game types then why couldn’t they just use separate loot tables for the various modes? If I’m not mistaken, there are many items in the game that have multiple item codes with the same name (i.e. varying versions of thralls, Silent Legion armor, etc.). They could have one SoC that’s nerfed for PvP, and another one like the original SoC for PvE and just update the item codes to the correct one for the respective game type. It shouldn’t be that hard…

I agree, i almost started a post of if every got there wish and reversed some of the nerfs…
LBS = insta health
Thrall with SoC = insta kills
Acid Arrows = Offline raid buffer
Dsimantle Bench = no more grinding, just flip the arrows for steel
Mounts = no risk in facing NPC’s
Obbie in base for quick travel back to base = no risk in facing NPC’s or players
Jhebal Sag = demolish bubbled bases
Set = demolished ground bases
Derketo Oil transmute = Zeal for perma-bubble
Vathis = easiest Super Thrall capture to do your fighting
Unlimited Arrows on thralls = collect missed shots for mass snake arrow production
No damage Fall = Halo barbarians
Original SL = +3 to all stats in easy to make armor
600K HP Vaults = Endless vault land claims
Middle socket Fences = Crash the server at will

There are probably more that were legit mechanics, and who gets to choose which ones need to be returned and which ones don’t?
If they all go back to pre nerf then CE is just a
a

3 Likes

Sure, but the same can be said for any semi-high end weapon really, if that’s how you want to play the game. The problem was definitely never PvE.

1 Like

You’re missing the point. The point is that a majority of the “rewards” of grinding UC were troll or joke items. Even those that weren’t (legendary weapon repair kits) were a slap in the face to those of us that put in the time and effort to attract and defeat purges that had the requisite blacksmiths. (Don’t even get me started on the Witch Doctor giving away all the Purge Alchemist benefits for free.)

TLDR; It’s extremely frustrating grinding out rewards only to get the bait and switch treatment so often.

1 Like

TL;DR: If you nerf something, atleast nerf it in a way so people whine about it because it’s annoyingly interesting, instead of annoyingly boring.


Splitting PvE and PvP would cause a mode divergence that increases in size over time.
At some point, these modes become two entirely different games, as differences between the modes pile up over time.

For some demented reason, PvP seems to have lesser player retention, but increased consumer rotation (Battle Royale, CoD, everything with PvP) Read: More money circulated, because PvP players are more likely to call in back up in form of friends, than PvE players are, who are usually more introverted.

PvE will enjoy more individual player retention, because it’s hard to let go of achievements, the longer and more they accumulate, especially since they don’t have to belong to someone else (i.e. the unilateral marriage contracts to alpha tribe leaders in PvP)

I believe a better approach would be to be aware that it is difficult to balance PvP without deteriorating features that are considered fun or endearing at the cost of players.

Instead, one should preserve the endearment of these features by maturing these.

If something becomes meta, work with the meta and make it awesome.

If all PvP players use a life-blood spear, you have a predictable pattern that you can exploit as a designer. Create a mob, or an element that inverts healing effects.

Stop treating meta as some form of unforeseen mutation or cancer that corrupts your vision… Players don’t play the way YOU want them to, therefore stop “neutralizing” emergent behavior, and start playing with said behavior instead. Take advantage of it. That’s proper design.

The reason something becomes meta in a game, is because everything else is mediocre. If you turn that meta mediocre as well, it’s just playing whackamole with the mediocre that stands out.

IF you have an overpowered weapon that seems to be only viable on thrall, have the damage go on both the mob and the thrall (just for instance, i’m sure people have better ideas, but who usually just want to illustrate ideas as likely to fail because they seem to have better ideas themselves that they never seem to present).

What Funcom is doing right now are quick-fixes under a harsh schedule. They are forced to make quick fixes because they have sooo many platforms that need to undergo certifications and they got vacations etc…

It’s like those ISP’s who do I.P. leasings… reset your router every midnight just because they don’t have enough IP’s to go around… there are better ways to do this, but they simply don’t have thetime or the capacity to implement said better method.

Therein lies the problem.

2 Likes

I like this one. That the Witch Doctor is publicly available for everyone at only one location.
You wanna know why?

1 Like

This poll lakes a 3rd option : having things actually balanced.

They were too powerfull before. Now they are practically useless. Neither of these states are satifactory. The satisfacory state is balance.

1 Like