Unknown build limit?

Yep

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I don’t trust that. Thing is…I have seen horses walking alone through territories getting attacked by skeletons and what not. I think it does walk when you aren’t on and when you log in, it goes straight to it’s guarding place.

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Then I guess your good with letting other people win half the time, because, you know, there are others on the server too. Let them win, dont be selfish. Right? But that wouldnt be fair to you, nor fun.

So why are you wanting others to play to your style?

Some people just break into a house and take a few things, others blow massive holes and leave nothing but a few foundations. Yup, youre going to run into all the above from both sides of the extreme and everywhere in the middle. Its PVP and its raiding, you will see all kinds of things.

We have official servers with set times to raid in. If I choose to play on an official server, I am agreeing with the fact that I can be raided any day of the week during those times. If Im ok with that, Ill play on officials. If Im not ok with the chance of offline raiding, then Ill find somewhere that doesnt have that, or has some way to protect against it.

Its my choice to be in that situation. Dont get mad when you choose to be there and you get offline raided - you knew it could happen and took the chance.

PVP and competitive games can be fun, but the point for some is to win.

Some games yes and for some people yes. When I play, say for example, PUBG or Hell Let Lose, they are fun to play, but Im playing to win. I dont play to enjoy the game with other players. Granted, those are totally different concepts to Conan, but looking back at when I first started Conan, I loved the game. Loved the concept, loved the gameplay, loved the PVP. Back in the day, we were alphas on a couple servers and at that point, when anyone could come after you because of your power and strength, your mindset changes. It becomes more about maintaining that power and control in order to stay top dog. And while it doesnt last forever, it lasts as long as you choose to play. Then either you move on, the server dies off or you switch to a different server to do it all over again.

And there is nothing wrong with that - for YOU. Others want more.

I honestly dare you to build up to T3 bases, end game material every day, lose it overnight, then start over every day. Do that for months on end and tell me its fun.

Again, Ill go back to the time I went through this. I think this was the turning point for me, that our clan chose to become hardcore at the game. We decided we were going to win. We had people from around the world in our clan so we could maintain an online presence. We had people that could play for 10 hours a day in our clan. We did what we had to do to win. We chose that because we loved the game and wanted to win. Heck, I even got a phone call at 4am one night because a clan from the country we cant name was using elevators on top of towers to bypass land claim (remember those days!!!) and raid our bases. It was me versus 4. Epic fight, and I drove them all off. Awesome times, awesome battles.

Point is, not everyone does this. Some will see it as crazy. Doesnt matter - its what we chose to do to win. Back to the main point of the thread…this is why people build the way they do. They want to win, they want their stuff hard to raid, protected and secured so they can be competitive.

I haven’t said that. I don’t think anyone has said that. This discussion has been about FC implementing the rules and how that conflicts with player behavior that has developed during their time of non intervention.

If you want to play hard go for it. All I have pointed out is that mentality has been a leading factor in the declining quality of official PVP servers. If we are all willing to do anything to win with zero oversight from admins, we all suffer from a worse experience.

Except this is a public forum where we offer up advice, prescriptions and criticism. “If you don’t like it, go to private servers” really has little place here, where the whole point is discourse.

Not that that matters or has much to do with my point, which I’m not completely sure you grasped: player behavior, driven by competitiveness and greed, went unchecked for too long and developed into a culture that negatively effected CE as a game such that Funcom has begun aggressively enforcing their rules to bring official servers more in line with mainstream private servers. U MaD BRuh?

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Yeah I can understand that, but you will NEVER change it. How will you stop people from putting in the time and effort to go above and beyond to be the best, the strongest and biggest clan on a server? You cant. Well, I guess you could make rules to stop such things, but I think thats more detrimental to the problem then anything. You would turn the servers into something far too soft and the hardcore players wont like it.

Thats what I mean when I say your style. The more “friendly” side to pvp. Some would like it Im quite sure. Just like some wont.

Yes, and the ONLY OPTION you have if you do not like being offline raided is to go to a server that offers offline raid protection. This is a clear cut, black and white, simple solution to that problem. There is no in between, there is no grey area, nothing. If you want PVP and raiding, and offline raid protection, officials are not where you will find that.

Funcom implementing the rules HAS changed it. You are much more likely to be banned for using “winning” strategies than you would have doing the same thing six months ago.

Do you genuinely believe that no change happens as a result of discourse here? Your only IMMEDIATE option to avoid offlining is to go to private. If enough traction were gained it could very well be the case that we see dynamic building implemented on officials at some point in the future. Just like 24 hour raiding changed to 5. You want to know how we ensure nothing ever changes for the better in CE? It’s by telling people to just got to private servers instead of voicing their opinions and discussing them.

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They run back at about 10x or 20x speed and you don’t have to be logged off. Often they seem like they’re teleporting because by the time the server packet comes down to update their position they have already moved. At least that’s been my observation. There are bases on all sides of me - although over 1 or 2km away and I can see horses return in a jet stream at impossible speeds.

If you die or tell a follower to stop following and you leave the vicinity they will (seem like they) teleport back home after (I think it is) 20min. Basically the same happens if you just log off and leave them there - again, I think it’s 20min.

If you tell a follower to stop following you right in the middle of a bunch of enemies and you also leave the vicinity everyone will stop fighting as soon as you’re gone. Come back and they will start up again. And meanwhile all NPCs, and followers will heal - yours at the normal rate for their food and NPCs at the server rate (very fast).

I’m not exactly sure what happens when you order them home. The same thing maybe?

When you “rescue” them I think they teleport - but it could be by “jet stream” too - not sure.

Having a base is not an exploit.
Not having a base is not an exploit.
Having a base you never use is not an exploit.
They are just different play styles.

One would have to abandon common sense to think otherwise I’m afraid.

I’m starting to think most of these people getting bases demo’d and a 7-14 day ban are undermeshing. Its just they thought their secret stash was hidden enough. And they come on here, complaining about the enforcement thinking only their undermeshed bits should have been demo’d when a Funcom admin clicked a button and demo’d their entire lot.

So the question was brought up, do we think foundation stackers are as bad as undermeshers? Well seeing as the entire lot was likely undermeshing too, then yeah. The label kinda goes with the practice, doesn’t it?

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Agreed. But the reference to an exploit vs emergent gameplay was relevant for two reasons - first the fact that fence-foundation stacking was originally confirmed as emergent gameplay and was later confirmed as an exploit (showing that Funcom can and has changed its stance on such concepts) - second the fact that I was discussing a specific PVP tactic whereby players build a base with no doors at all. If I understand correctly, they ensure their followers can always ‘return home’ to that location, and they themselves travel in by dying (removing bracelet) and respawning on their bedroll, and out by maproom. To be clear, I view it as emergent gameplay, but I can see how it has the potential to be classed as an exploit, since clearly none of those systems were designed with the intention of enabling bases without weak points. I just thought it was an interesting situation that has the potential to get reclassified.

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Why does everyone think outrageous land claim is the only way you prevent offline raiding? You can make stylish bases that fit the area around you AND prevent raiding. Yeah yeah yeah treb this and yeah yeah yeah avatar that. Location matters and both maps have areas that are treb and avatars proof and raiders would have to rely on arrows…and no one is really into arrow raiding anymore. So go and get creative. Offline raiding weeds put poor designs. Foundation spamming is the vulgar insult to the game designers and coders…and I will give up my fence stacks for the removal of that technique.

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Mmmm, nah, I’m not having any of that pudding… They make a change and we have to second guess ourselves about everything we do forever after? Nah, no need to torcher yourself. They’ll let us know if they pull any more U-turns.

I don’t have the relevant links. But I know a man who does… It’s not a question of them having made a change. It’s that they expressly stated two opposing rulings on the same issue (one reversing the other) and that information was not expressly added to the rules, it remained known only to those who read the relevant forum thread.

And no, I’m not suggesting we second guess ourselves about everything. It was literally a passing thought about an interesting tactic I’ve heard about from other players and simple musing as to whether it might fall into a similar trap at some point. The point, insofar as there was one, is that there is little if anything players can do to distinguish emergent gameplay from certain types of exploit, and that I feel it must be more difficult for PVP players to walk that line sometimes.

You’d think. But experience shows that is far from always the case. There’ve been some pretty major community blow-ups about it over the years. It’s one of the key areas that people tend to mean when we try to encourage Funcom to communicate more (a passtime that many of us have near enough given up on, having seen that a big part of why Funcom communicates so little is because of the abuse received when they do).

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I did just that in the beginning. That is how I got someone teaching me some things. The alpha raiders were shocked I came back when they wiped me clean. I told them they didn’t…I still had 8 leather and 300 plant fiber so watch out. That lead to a friendship to one of the clan and they left me alone. See the game is actually secondary the interaction matters more.

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Oh, well then it’s back to common sense again obviously.

A) It’s OK to stack fence foundations under some circumstances.
B) It’s not OK to stack fence foundations under other circumstances.

How much you wanna bet everyone reading this can guess which circumstances are which?

Let me take a shot at it:

It’s not OK when you abuse it and stack them long and deep like that image @CodeMage likes to bring up or even 1/4th that much. Or really, even two deep in any area of size at all.

It is OK when you’re doing it for a single layer either for reinforcement or for the different aesthetic created by that part.

If you need something specific then just ask yourself if you think you’re abusing it and are willing to risk you base on the bet. I think the last time @CodeMage posted that image (26 posts above this one) he essentially said the same thing and even used the word “common sense”.

Jeez, some people’s children huh? pspspsps…

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Except that’s really not my understanding of how it was presented. But I’ll leave that to someone more familiar with how it was presented. However - the rules state:

Therefore, if fence-foundation stacking is an exploit, then it is at least potentially bannable no matter how little is used - this is why erjoh was talking earlier about needing to do some housekeeping. (This is also why I keep insisting on the importance of a human judgement in examining such cases - one would hope that they focus on the spirit of the rules - but the letter is pretty clear in this instance, except that part of it is buried in a closed thread and not immediately available to all players.)

I’m gonna assume that’s aimed more broadly to readers in general, since otherwise you’re forgetting I’m singleplayer - and I ain’t gonna report myself, no matter what building infractions I commit :wink:

This, however, sounds like you’re accusing me of something?

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OK, so where exactly did they ever state anything about fence foundations or stacking in general? I dunno anything and never saw them say it but just from the discussions here it seems really obvious to me. You can’t stack a gazillion plated wall because it defeats the purpose of gameplay in PVP making the defender essentially impervious to attack - if they mentioned anything at all I’m certain that’s why. I dunno if they used the excuse or additional component of server lag to stress this point or not though. That seems to be one of their concerns - I gather from reading here. So is it an exploit? Yes, seems like it is to me. But if not used in that way and only because it looks better (one layer deep) on some walls or whatever then no, that’s not exploiting that building mechanic.

Yes, only speaking generally.

No no… Maybe I should have said something more like: “It sucks that some people have to go and ruin it for the rest of us.”

I have way too much regard for you and a few others here to get on any kind of high horse, become combative or accusatory - I’m the n00b here after all - just trying to understand all this stuff and then lend my understandings to the general flow as I think I might be comprehending something - other than my bellybutton lint that is. :stuck_out_tongue:

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How will Funcom stop hardcore players from building strong defensive bases, playing 10 hours a day and being online for all raid time? (This is kinda getting off topic of the build limit so Ill try to focus more on that)

Lets say a clan that plays hardcore PVP follows all building rules - which so far are basically not to fence stack and “not so big as to cause server performance”. If you build a base in a great spot and have 200 layers to get through, people will still do it if it means being safe. Legal builds, not breaking any rules. People will find a way to make their bases strong.

Bingo, which is exactly what I said. Now, next week if Funcom implements offline raid protection so be it. Dont get mad when players find a way to use this to their advantage. Know how? Alt accounts. Use them to store things safely, log them off, their stuff is protected and your main clan can go raiding and pvp. If I recall, thats why it was not implemented on Siptah.

By all means no, talk about it. But the way things are right now if you want offline protection the ONLY thing you can do is to go private. Its your choice, but that is the ONLY thing you can do RIGHT NOW.

They must have liked you to only wipe you once. And yeah, its not hard to build back up. Determination, the will to win, the enjoyment of the game, whatever it may be…is what you use to keep going. Thats how you play.

Others are different.

The same goes with buildings.

Yeah, Funcom bans based on “thinking” and “likely”