Unknown build limit?

Like I said, I don’t have the links - but I’ll see if I can find the last time @CodeMage posted them

My apologies - I guess I’m getting tired and failed to see what you meant. TBH I feel like it ruins it for the community team as well. I would have thought people getting into that sort of field probably enjoy a bit of interaction on social media - witness the abomination thread for example. But it’s much harder as a representative of a company or group - it’s natural to face accusatory ‘you did x’ type statements - aimed, of course, at the company, but it’s easy to see how that kind of language gets absorbed by the recipient. And, of course, the ‘internet disconnect’ problem always seems to make these things worse. (But what’s the ‘cure’ for the internet?)

That’s kind to say - and, again, I apologise for misunderstanding. For what it’s worth, I would hope that you would call me out if you felt I was in the wrong (it does happen occasionally - very occasionally :wink: ).

And, I’d say, frequently raising some decent points or applying a different perspective. All valued. We may not always agree on everything, but what a boring world that would be :slight_smile:

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None needed. It’s fine… it’s all fine!

Umm, well I can’t speak for Funcom but I’ve done that kind of work, also as a developer and an application designer at different times, also been involved with others doing it as well. It’s not enjoyed in the sense you might be thinking. We all like accolades and eliciting smirks with the occasional joke (like the Funcom guy who said “more corn” earlier today. But mostly we/they just want to explain something once and have it be understood without addressing any confusion - typically caused by people who want you to think for them. The enjoyment comes when that happens successfully. But when we/they need to address the confusion you should hear the lunchroom remarks… it’s not fun (usually).

“very occasionally” - that made me laugh. :slight_smile:

Yup, I am defiantly out here in left-field doing my thing - oh wait, Ummm… :stuck_out_tongue:

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Ah, finally managed to find the post I was looking for for the links about how fence foundation stacking is or isn’t an exploit.

Funcom did make it clear in the original response that the rules could change in the future (as is perfectly reasonable), but that isn’t really the issue. As can be seen in the second response, it sounds a lot like use of the building technique is considered to be the problem. Or at least I wouldn’t want to stake my build on it (if I was ever on an official server…). It’s not so much the change itself that is the issue, but rather that a rule which appears this stringent could be reversed after so long and yet require digging on the forums to even find out about. That’s what leads to the worries that something along those lines could potentially happen again (and by worries, I mean idle musings…).

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So, yeah, that seems to follow with my presumptuous logic. Like other things in the game, it can be used and also abused. The abuse of it is considered an exploit of the mechanic. Or it could be reworded that: The exploitation of that mechanic is considered an abuse. Either way against the rules. But when not exploiting that mechanic for unfair advantages, it’s just fine.

The hair being split is when does it become an abuse - the answer to which I still think is entirely obvious. It may not be quantifiable in a simple sentence (although I would claim that it is) but you’ll know it based on your intent and use/misuse of the mechanic.

What can only be guessed at is at what point they would take action by demolishing your structure. My guess would be based on the severity of the misuse and whatever intentions can be gleaned via inspection and observation. And of course noting that Admins are individual persons so there’s all that too…

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I 100% agree it is an exploit. But that would be really hard to police and ban for.

Plus, as long as they have offline raiding as the main meta for raids, it is 1 of the only ways to slow down raiders.

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they walk if it < than the 15 minute window and a player is near to render, otherwise it is static Dat waiting for timer to sound out then insta port.

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Quite. And yes, this is the part of the rules I’m talking about.

Well, sure but as I’ve made no secret, those are almost certainly a tiny minority. What it would also do, though, is give people a concrete sense of where the limits are - and therefore a feeling of security that they’re not going to log on to an admin-nuked base one day because they veered over some invisible, fuzzy line.

Sure. Nothing will stop that - particularly those who are dishonest about their transgressions.

No argument there, really - except terms of service almost invariable include some language to indicate listed infractions are not exhaustive, “such as but not limited to X, Y and Z”. Of course you could argue that this is already the situation today, and I would concede that this is a fair point. I still don’t think examples of things that are not allowed would hurt, though.

I know you know what you’re talking about, so you probably know as well as I that this isn’t trivial. No question that it would be the best, arguably the only good solution.

Sure. And I suppose my argument boils down to whether building “normal” (but huge) builds can violate that rule, and if so: how/when. If we’re only talking about destructive spam or stacking, then it’s all good, carry on, etc.

Right. I may well be championing a cause that doesn’t exist - but if so, I maintain that it wouldn’t hurt for Funcom to say as much. Obviously opinions differ, and that’s fine - ultimately only Funcom (via Zendesk) is in a position to judge whether this is a real problem or just me chasing ghosts (who you gonna call!).

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This is something I don’t understand.

Funcom is bad.
Funcom is incompetent.
Funcom is vague.
Funcom sucks.
Funcom lies.
Funcom doesn’t think.
Funcom can’t be trusted.

And about a dozen more negative things. If you believe this. Why are you all still here?

I want you to try something. I want you to pick up some sandwich at a local fast food spot. Then I want you to go back home and say all the same things to the people around you (parents, friends, relatives, roommate, spouse, or whatever) that you all say about Funcom while eating it. And mention they’ve been like this the last half dozen times you’ve ordered from there.

What do you think their reaction is going to be?

Well the answer is obvious. They’re going to say “why the hell do you keep eating there?” Because normal people stop frequenting a business with fractions of the problems you all have. So either you are not normal and there’s something broken (I don’t believe this), or you all are lying.

Interesting point about the foundation spamming and blocking obelisks and dungeons entrances. The problem though is that not the scenario we are talking about. We are truly talking about legit bases that are determined to be too large.

The employees at said restaurant can be incompetent, get your order wrong, promise a promotion and not deliver, have dirty floors, etc and still server good food

Maybe people eat there because the food is good and can put up with the rest? Maybe at one point the restaurant atmosphere was better?

Then why would they change? They can treat you like crap and you’ll still pay. Good job.

This is why no one takes you seriously.

You need to step out into the real world someday. There are places and people like that, but you have to deal with it. You just do it because it needs to be done.

Are you going to turn down the best steak in town because the waiter didnt bring you another beer?

Are you going to quit playing a fun survival game because after 4 years Funcom still screws up?

Except they’re not scrooing (sic) up. CE is one of the most stable, beautiful, and fun games on the planet. There are probably fewer real issues with it than any other MMO survival game. What there are, are a few ignoramuses out there acting completely out of self interest in blatant disregard for the intent of the specified rules. They can’t or won’t apply common sense and then when they get in trouble they come here and whine: Waaa, Funcom didn’t slap my hand the way I like. Waaa, Funcom didn’t set a hard limit so I wouldn’t “mistakenly” build a million piece bridge that blocks off MY valley. Waaa, Funcom didn’t like that every member in our 20-member clan built their own base spread all across the map. Waaa, etc.

Are there bugs, errors, and room for improvements, even server admin error? Of course there is - equally (or to a lesser degree IMHO) with every other game - ever. Considering the tiny size of the team creating and maintaining it however, it’s a marvel!

I dunno, I just woke up, I could be wrong, I could still be dreaming and in reality Funcom and their evil server admins could be throwing down user’s bases right and left for the smallest infraction - secretly hiding their real intent behind purposely vague language and leaving the part limit open as a ruse just to ensnare people without common sense errr, I mean the innocent. dun DUNN dunnnn…

Ummm, yeah, that makes total sense… :crazy_face: :laughing: :face_with_hand_over_mouth:


Disclaimer: I’m not implying that people asking legitimate questions like @ItsFrostiey are whining or blatantly breaking the rules - just FYI.

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If they screw up, yes.

I have left games over less than you claim is happening here. I had played Everquest 2 for over 10 years when they released a garbage expansion that lacked the quality I expected. I have not played the game for nearly three years now.

I have stopped going to one of the best steak houses in Killeen TX when I was stationed there because of how they treated me and a buddy there. They were absolutely rude and such.

As for my world experience, I’ve been all over North America, and have been to parts of Europe, and did a deployment in Northern Africa. So I’ve been outside a little bit.

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Well, it is actually not bs. I had it happen to myself twice altough there was no blocking or spamming in anyway. Admittedly when the first deletion happened, my bases were huge. But the 2nd time, they were not that big because i learned my lesson and built them much scmaller. Now I am building even smaller and am still not sure what happens if some jerks think of filing multiple reports.
And have seen it happening to a lot of players on our server who got their bases removed and were banned who didn’t do anything. There was one clan who had a 10x12 building with 3 floors and no deco and they got deleted for building abuse. Explain that

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Please show ANY proof of this.

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You know once an admin logged in and saw my build and said it was the most perfectest use of the building mechanics they had ever seen. :wink: It was like Michael Angelo had built in Conan Exiles.

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Ahh, yes… the famous Michelangelo! I can see that Biggcane.

His skills with the nunchaku are legendary!

My favourite ninja turtle actually.

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Its either get banned or get permanently death raided until you quit because you can´t keep up farming and building without deeply exhausting yourself. You can choose what you prefer. Neither one will make you happy nor give you a good player experience.

The differents between private and officials are the active admins/moderation and the different rulesets. You choose what fits you and your playstyle and so do the people you play with on that server. You do not need to wait weeks for cheaters or people that only come to destroy a server to be gone. You do not need to login for hours to watch your base during raidtimes if you don´t want to. And still you can get pvp or raids or rp or whatever your hearts desire. Funcom doesn´t offer any of this. This is why officials are so unpopular. Because gaming is a hobby and no fulltime job. It should be fun playing not exhausting or stressfull. I do not say Funcom didn´t meant well. But this rules without a good and permanent moderation of the servers only change one thing, that people will stop playing officials because of one of the two reason I told above.

I do not know about any competitive game where rules like: “don´t be a …” work, no matter if the gamedesigners communicate rules or not. This games are full of : name it and you will get it. If you join such a game and expect people to behave decently or fair, you will get screwed over 100%. You will need a thick skin, set your trustlevel above average and you need to leave your manners at the door because if not you will be treated very badly. Just Survive, Ark, Rust, DayZ, Hunt, Scum whatever game you want to insert ,it is the same with all of them. And even if you report a person and he/she gets punished, next day you come online there are two new you have to deal with. This is the way it always has been and always will be.

I truly understand everybody who says this cup is not for me or: I am getting to old for that s… But truth is, most people do not want to be nice in competitive games and in most other games too, they just want to have fun and win (or get the feeling of winning). And without constant moderation no rules in the world will stop them. Therefore I am glad that private servers exist where everyone gets their prefered cup filled.

In my opinion, this rules do no good just empty out official servers more and more, which might be wanted or not by Funcom, I don´t know. But I can´t think of something positive that this rules will provide other then the little performance boost the servers will get. But what good does it, if you do not have enough people on that servers playing.

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I agree with a lot of what you wrote about the general nature of survival games players and the behavior the genre tends to promote. This part though I think is only true with regard to the “big clan/alpha” meta on PVP official servers. Solo and duo groups have thrived for years now on these servers and have done so with small hidden bases, diversification, and cunning play. I think you are correct that playing to the “alpha” meta will result in a ban nowadays, but I’m not convinced that is the only way to play the game. I also would suggest that server transfer (as is) is more damaging to our established experience of CE PVP than implementing rules.

The few reasons I can think of are:

They believe the meta is damaging to player retention and don’t fear losing current players over keeping possible future ones.

They are working towards a new vision for official PVP. Transfers are an indication of this to me. Clearing out server stifling bases may be an effort to set up some future change, offline raid protection for example.

As the game gets older private server numbers likely drop, meaning official servers become more important to the remaining playerbase. The quality of those servers becomes more important as a result.

Idk obviously this is speculation, but I don’t think it follows that there is no possible benefit to losing certain players as a result of implementing the rules.