Wineceller Thag needs nerfing. Impossible or insanley hard since age of war

Conan Exiles PC Discussion
101

Okay, so I remembered that I was going to try to do the dungeon Pokemon-style, and I’ve just finished, and there’s no nice way to say this: you need to get better, @LZB_Gattsu.

Here are the attributes I used:

  • Strength: 0
  • Agility: 10, Precision Strike
  • Vitality: 20, Fast Healer, Glutton for Punishment
  • Authority: 20, Commanding Presence, Well-Trained
  • Grit: 5
  • Expertise: 5

I wore Skelos Cultist Master armor and the only weapon I used was Baal-pteor’s Razor (agility variant), with master weapon fitting.

I took with me a level 20 Cimmerian Berserker, neither my best nor my worst thrall:

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Those are his stats when he’s not following me, by the way. His loadout was:

  • Redeemed Legion Helmet (w/ bulked plating)
  • Voidforged Dragon Ribs (w/ bulked plating)
  • Gobreaker Grips (w/ bulked plating)
  • Pictish Warchief Leggings (w/ bulked plating)
  • Pictish Warchief Boots (w/ bulked plating)
  • Momentum (w/ master weapon fitting)

While following me, his total armor was 1912 and his max health was 4505.

Let’s get one thing out of the way: at no point did my thrall’s health dip below 3000. Not when fighting the mini-bosses, not when fighting the Rotted Hulk (3-skull undead shaleback boss), not when fighting Thag.

As for the fights, they were all easy and fast. Before going into the dungeon, I ate a hearty feast, which gives +12% follower damage. I also made my thrall eat pork rinds, to give him a damage boost. Inside the dungeon, one of the skellies dropped Tears of Gullah, so I decided to drink that too, since I already have 22 in storage at home. The damage output of my thrall made every single fight shorter than any other time I’ve been to the dungeon.

The mini-bosses dealt non-negligible damage to my thrall, but like I said, his health never dipped below 3000 (usually around 3300), and I brought a full stack (50) of enhanced gruel for healing. After a mini-boss fight, I would give my thrall 5 enhanced gruel. Once his health was full, I took any remaining gruel back into my inventory. Before tackling Thag, I put all the remaining enhanced gruel in his inventory. As soon as Thag was dead, I took all the gruel back. At the end, there was 29 gruel remaining, which means I used up 21 over the course of the whole dungeon.

The final boss fight was surprisingly easy. My thrall and I tag-teamed Thag until he summoned the first wave of wights, and then I focused on clearing them so they wouldn’t stun-lock my thrall. Thag managed to do 2 sequences of AoE attacks, and to summon 2 waves of wights. My thrall finished him off while I was clearing out the second wave of summons.

All in all, the dungeon was much easier with the thrall than it was solo, and we’re definitely dealing with either a skill problem or a spoiled attitude here. Neither Thag nor any of the bosses and mini-bosses in the dungeon need nerfing. The challenge is fun and challenging to solo, but the challenge goes away if you bring a thrall. If you want everything on a silver plate without any effort, go into single-player or play on a private server with lower difficulty.

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102

My only issue with that fight is the AOE damage. It could stand to be dialed back a wee bit, simply because the combo can kill you outright if you misstep or lag out… and I hate having to go all the way back through the dungeon naked as enemies are respawning. Other than that, I’ve had no issues with my thralls.

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I’ve been bitten by lag in Wine Cellar a few times, but I’ve never gotten killed by one hit of the AOE sequence. I imagine that you either got hit by more than one, or you don’t have 20 points in vitality.

If you consistently have problems with lag and changing servers is not an option, perhaps you could use the Steel Thewed perk to make sure lag doesn’t kill you inside the Wine Cellar?

104

Yeah, I don’t use 20 in vitality. I’d rather apply it elsewhere. I also don’t like 20 in grit either. The better idea would be to just fix the damn game instead of trying to compensate by using a build I don’t wanna use. I’m not a fan of being forced into using a build because they made the game push you into that. Grit builds anyone?:roll_eyes:

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FWIW, I haven’t used grit 20 myself, because I’ve never needed it. I personally can’t relate to being pushed into using that kind of build. But I don’t play PVP, so I haven’t really been pushed into any build whatsoever.

As for fixing the damn game, you can’t “fix” lag as a developer. Official servers are crap, true, but there are usually options even when it comes to that.

The only time lag made the game unplayable for me was when I was trying to play on a private server in Oceania. Since I live in the US, my ping was always 300+, and that made the game truly unplayable.

Maybe your situation is different. I don’t know.

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I’m more referring to the sorry state of PlayStation’s version. Rendering and hiccups on ps5 shouldn’t be happening, but it’s been optimized so poorly that it does.

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My deepest apologies to all the fellow members posts above, i read almost none. It’s 107 posts already for something… Simple.
The dungeon in age of sorcery was harder. If you dare to go in there without authority points then the final battle would kill both your high lvl Berserker and your horse. So it was best to do it alone and tell them to stop and wait outside.
Now!
You can do it with a Berserker lvl 15 and higher, with zero authority points and end up easier winner without loosing your thrall and of course your horse. It’s impossible to loose a horse with 30k hp and for this well done devs, in age of sorcery my horse name was “todiesoon”.
2 things are important in this dungeon.
1st. Put some fiber in your horse, you’ll need to fix many wraps after every single mini boss fight.
2nd never run if you wish to keep your followers alive and charge in each fight, you are the hero, not your thrall.

Now the game has a really strong weapon for thralls that’s even better than SoC, the momentum. It’s unbelievable!
Makes the most low thrall vicious. I cannot imagine the dmg outcome if i play full authority well trained, i simply can’t!

Last but not least. I don’t feel like doing the dungeon for xp farming on my thralls, i find it risky and dangerous. I don’t even need the khari steel or the really rare but worthless pristine weapons. So mostly i enter the dungeon, i order stop, i run to the spiders, i order attack, we kill all the spiders and go together to the final. Plus i give a vitality potion to my Berserker, it’s not much but it does the job :wink:.
Good luck @LZB_Gattsu may Croms gift appear!

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108

Lets see folk use anything other than crutch momentum or 1 specific thrall. The skeleton bosses absolutely destroy thralls even with 4k hp. Fact.

Thag can stunlock thralls with the knock down and deal massive damage. Fact, its a part of the bosses moveset. Thralls stand in the aoe. Fact, they dont avoid it. Again taking damage.

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Let’s see you stop moving the goalposts. I did it with a Berserker. @Archivist did it with Dalinsia. @Xevyr did it with Thugra. But I guess we should get a level 10 Deirdre Deathbringer, dress her in Khitan Mercenary armor, give her a brace of iron poniards, and then lament that she got flattened.

Well, I’m terribly sorry, but I only have 3 fully leveled thralls – 2 Berserkers and 1 Thugra – and I’m not gonna spend time speed-leveling some crappy thrall of your choice to try to prove a point, because you’ve already proven it for me: you want things to be handed to you instead of adapting.

Have you considered that, if you’re doing one of the toughest dungeons in the game, you should get a good thrall, with good stats, and then give it good gear and good food?

Tell you what, though. I’ll take the Berserker again, since Thugra is supposed to deal even more damage, but I’ll give him Nortis instead of Momentum. Same setup as before, just a change of weapon. Then I’ll be back and tell you how it went, and I’ll bet you’ll come up with another way to move the goalposts instead of admitting you were wrong.

If by “fact” you mean “bullshіt”, then I agree. I showed you a thrall that had 4505 health and the skeleton bosses didn’t “absolutely destroy” him.

Also fact, they can deal with it just fine. Several people already showed that.

Anyway, I’ll be back in a bit with the report of how it went with a weaker weapon. Can’t wait to see your next excuse.

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110

The game doesn’t need nerfing of any sort. We need harder content. I want a boss I can’t defeat without a thrall.

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111

Well, I’m back from yet another visit to the Wine Cellar, and the verdict is the same as before: git gud, @LZB_Gattsu.

I went the extra mile and leveled a completely new thrall to level 20:

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That there is a freaking dancer, so don’t give me any crap about how I picked “that one specific thrall”.

As before, what you see in the screenshot are her normal stats when she’s not following me, i.e. without the benefit she gets from Well-Trained.

When she is following me, her max health is 4067 (as opposed to my Berserker’s 4505), but her total armor is 2088, because she has higher grit.

As promised, I gave her a Nortis instead of Momentum, so that’s 72 base damage instead of 90 (both have armor pen of 39%).

Everything else is the same as in previous visit to the Wine Cellar: I ate a hearty fest and drank Tears of Gullah, I carried 50 enhanced gruel for her healing, I used the same equipment, and I had the same attributes and perks.

Guess what? Her health still didn’t go below 3000 at any point. She still wiped the floor with the mini-bosses. The fight with Thag was a bit longer than the last time, but her health was 3577 at the end of it, and she had 33 leftover gruel.

Seriously, I don’t know what you’re doing wrong and I honestly don’t care, because you’re not going to change your mind anyway.

This should be enough proof for anyone with an ounce of critical thinking: Thag doesn’t need nerfing.

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112

Just respect and fight, that’s all!

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113

I just did the dungeon with a Greater Sabretooth @LZB_Gattsu
He had too much HP to ever be in danger :catnobanana:
Gonna upload the whole thing to YouTube, so that the extremely-relaxed gameplay can be seen :eye:
I honestly had no idea if it would work or not considering the pets being nerfed a lot, but it was a walk in the park :evergreen_tree:

Without following, 376 armor ≃ 43% dmg reduction.

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With Well-Trained, 696 Armor ≃ 58% dmg reduction.

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This is hilarious, I can’t wait to see the video :smiley:

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The video as promised @CodeMage @LZB_Gattsu

I do not think I am showing amazing fighting skill at all in that video, just aware of my surroundings.
The most skillful part was my positioning at the very end of the bossfight to dance without getting hit :theworst:

I mostly played archer to support the main character, aka. OMEGALUL the Greater Sabretooth :rofl:
Of course I sometimes cleared stuff myself, especially when some NPCs went for me, and I waited a bit for OMEGALUL to regenerate HP before engaging Thag.

Just went with full buffs, Skelos Master Armor, Legendary Agility Weapons, and you can see I didn’t plan everything and I wasn’t sure about this at all because of the sh*tload of Serpent-men Arrows I brought with me, as well as the amount of Blood-Sausage I put in OMEGALUL’s inventory for healing :clap:

Thag Bossfight starts at 20mn if you wanna skip to that :theworst:

4 Likes
116

Congrats, nice show!
Do the same in official please. Because @LZB_Gattsu speaks about gaming in official servers not single player. In single player you can do this all alone for fun in barbaric mode.
Official lagging and bad performance can break your moral in seconds in this dungeon. Not to mention the “lost connection” which is not 100% solved.
You could light the torches in just a touch, we spend over ten seconds hitting in multiple places of the standing torch to turn on. 500 sausages? It costs :wink:. Nobody would risk so many sausages for just a Thag fight.
Why risk? It’s official gamimg a chocolate egg you don’t know what’s hiding inside.
Then… Hitting your torch, the breath? For every hit you loose an hour of durability, an hour. For something you cannot repair anymore and you need lots of grinding on official servers what you did was heretic :rofl::rofl::rofl:.
Skeleton spawns… Flawless
Agro… Flawless
Nah, these doesn’t exist on officials m8, before you know it you’ll be surrounded from 10 skellys and you’ll be WTF???
Try to understand, i am not making it big, it is. The difference reach “day and night”.
And you are right 1000% and i cannot thank you enough for it.
IT DOESN’T TAKE SKILL…
THANK YOU @SpherisCore.
All you need is knowledge, nothing else.
Or maybe one more very important thing. Players MUST try to play out of their box. Must leave their main weapons, main playstyle and try different things in this game, it’s f…g amazing. Especially the belly of lvl 60, for gods sake, playing years in 60 with the same characters is just getting fat, nothing else. Try this dungeon solo lvl 45 on official servers, you’ll love it. The satisfaction is HUGE.
So people must think twice before asking for nerfs, it’s not reasonable when you refuse to change your “single playstyle” to ask the whole system to change for your eyes only.
No more nerfs, it’s enough!
Once again congrats @SpherisCore nice show :metal:

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117

We never know what happens online. That’s very true, @stelagel . And the closer we are to server restart, the worse it gets. I had bugs in that dungeon you wouldn’t believe! :laughing:
This is the reason I was against nerfing thrall’s hp. Online there’s no way I’ll take a thrall with me. If I die to to the usual online shenanigans, I’ll just restart the dungeon. No penalty. If the thrall dies, frak it, I’ll be pissed, especially if it’s a gorgeous one. Since you can totally solo it, I don’t risk taking thralls with me.

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No @MarcosC now it’s balanced. You can take a thrall now, it’s not like age of sorcery.
Now it’s correct!
But yes, leave the gorgeous at home :laughing:, no reason to risk :wink:

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119

5 Blood = 1 Blood Sausage
250 Blood = 50 Blood Sausages
2500 Blood = 500 Blood Sausages

You have two ways of getting a lot of blood quite easily:
• The first and fastest way is to get Demon Blood which you then purify at Jhebbal T2 altar, each one gives you 5 Blood → 500 Demon Blood = 500 Blood Sausages
• The second which is easier to acquire but much slower to process, is to harvest Zathite Bags from spiders (2 per spider with the Efficient Harvest Perk) throw all the carcasses in the Fluid Press first, then all the skulls, and you’ll have too much bones and blood :rofl:

It doesn’t cost that much really, and if you noticed at the end of the video, only about one stack and a half was gone so maximum 100 Sausages = 500 Blood = 100 Demon Blood. Pretty cheap when you know where to farm what :slight_smile:

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Honestly the main reason I play single player.
I don’t want to torture myself with bad server performance, and I certainly don’t think a game should be balanced around it either :+1:

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