POLL => Should the Modes be Balanced Seperately?

Conan Exiles General Discussion
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I have returned. Forgive my late reply.

Aye. I know how you feel and often do so myself. I personally have been unable to read ALL of the posts thus far, except primarily owing to working demands and time constraints on my end. I would however be bold enough to say that the overwhelming tone of the discourse towards the proposed changes is negative. Furthermore, if we were to draw a comparison between the ‘like’ counts of some of the more measured replies such as my own post (sincere apologies, I am not attemting to toot my own horn) and Bodins, we are currently outnumbering that of the OP by a ratio of up to 3 to 1 (3:1). Certainly not the measure with the most reliablility and validity by any token, but it serves its purpose as to offer a general indication, ie-not well recieved. I would also say this of the results. It is also obvious that the vast majorty of PvE and Singleplayers* do not support this change, while most PvP players do (exceptions apply on each side of course).

Oooo you noticed! [straightens tie]. Forgive, just trying to inject some humor into this gentlemans debate.

That is some outstanding work as per usual Multi. I commend your mods initiative; you are a true and good natured workhorse within the community. And I am sure that many users will reap the benefits, putting it to good use. The thing is that if you have an entire spreadsheet(!) of ‘rebalances’ to un-nerf in order to improve the gaming experience for PvE and Singleplayers, that really compounds my own point. That the vast majority of balancing decisions are made with PvP in mind first and foremost, while PvE remains an after thought. That is a part of why I would like to see some additional Sliders and Settings added.

As do I. And I am 100% in favour of PvP getting every last nerf and rebalance they need. And I have learned much, having nothing but praise for many PvPers (special shoutout too SirDaveWolf, Azaroth and WhatMightHaveBeen). I simply do not agree that PvE should be forced into incepting these changes into their own mode (or for that matter vice versa). Especially when we consider that they are I) are almost always unanimously unpopular, II) detract from and negatively impact upon our own gaming experience, and III) devalue and trivialise dozens or even hundreds of hours of work. I am sorry, but I firmly believe that a man should not be taxed in the same accordance as his next door neighnour when their incomes and circumstances are completely different.

I can appreciate that. At this point in the games evolution I tend to view it more as an open world sandbox game with survival elements, as opposed to the reverse. That is yet another reason why myself and many others would greatly appreciate some additional Sliders and Settings. One such setting myself and others such as yourself could benefit from is the creation of a new, fourth difficulty option: ‘Hardcore’ mode. Purely optional. But additional Sliders/Settings or not, I will still continue to love and enjoy the game no matter what.

You seem to be quite resolute that I answer this section for you. I will probably live to regret this, but in the interest of constructive, passionate and gentlemanly debate, I shall oblige. This is a little presumptuous of you is it not, to assume what I would and would not take an interest in and prioritise? Or for that matter imply what I should* be taking an interest in (*theres that word again). Honestly that strikes me as a loaded question. If I didnt know any better I would swear that you were attempting to lure me into a trap and goad me into saying “…I know nothing of such things”. [In fact I cant practically hear Admiral Ackbar shouting his trademark line at me within my mind. Sorry, more humor] Fiendishly clever. I tell you what, please allow me to save you some trouble: “I know little to nothing of resource to developer task allocation”. As I am sure that most members do for that matter. My own profession, as with most forum members does not lie in game development. Such areas are largely outside of my domain of knowledge which is primarily piecemeal. I dont claim to have all the answers or believe that Funcom should succumb to my every whim. The best I can hope for is to pitch Funcom some ideas, attempt to convince them of their merits and logic, and then cross my fingers and hope that they will listen. Along the way, should I happen to percieve that they doing a great job (almost always!), my friends need a helping hand or that someone is being mistreated or getting a raw deal, you better believe that I will be throwing my hat into the ring to defend them. But Im not a developer, so if this happens to invalidate my request for some additional ‘Setting and Sliders’, and render my own perspective, viewpoint and all that I have done here on the forum (or for that matter any other members who isnt) worthless or second class, then…tout away.

I percieved that the way PvE is treated as far as balancing decisions go is unjust and not even-handed. Virtually every time PvP appeals for a balance adjustment en mass it is seen to without hesitation; just look at my list/your own spreadsheet. Conversely, on almost every such occasion that PvE collectively asks for a balance adjustment it gets completely ignored. I am happy to provide examples. Is it therefore any wonder (right or wrong) that so many PvE players claim that they feel like second class citizens…? Now if that shouldnt be high on my priorities, then I dont know what should.

PS- I am so sorry for the colossal wall of text!

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For the western world, at least to February it was still perfectly fine…

And again, at least they could say WHY they dont communicate that much. Saying nothing is just… Its just Fans creating ideas WHY it is like that → “its Coronas fault, not Funcom”.

So never anything is Funcoms fault? Really?

For my working thing NOTHING changed. Why should it change for developers? I just worked 3 months from home, doing exactly the same work.

And its not like CE is currently in a motion capture phase… Bug-fixing was not possible during Corona because of what?

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Dont feel bad bbtech. RNG hates me too! Just look at how long it took me to finally get a ‘Last Breath of the Red Mother’ to drop. :sweat: Hint:about 6-7 months.

Linky

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PS- come now…we all all know that moar Crom features is my biggest prioririty, and the single most important issue facing us as a community. Its a scientifically proven fact. :laughing: We must have more Crom features/goodies.

For CROM!! :mountain_snow: :metal:

[one last hearty shot of humour]

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Welp I do so love having hard numbers in front of me. Especially ones where I get to see whos numbers they are!!

Thank you @Croms_Faithful, for your efforts and general pleasant demeanour.

My two cents? Dont change the rules on me midgame. Quickest way to get me to stop playing. And man competition is fierce for my playtime!! I can log on every few days to keep my dlc themepark.

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71

until we have more Crom features, the game is literally unplayable

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Then make a thread of your own, don’t hijack every thread. that is belittling the OP of threads, as they are trying to have conversations about other topics. WE all know there are bugs. There are actually specific sub forums for you to do this. This thread is about separating the development of balance between the server types. Can you understand that? At this point, your post that are off topic are actually “bugs” to the people trying to have legitimate conversations on “themed” threads. So I guess you are no better than Funcom by bugging every thread with the same post. Maybe we need to balance your posts???

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73

Solo Offline just needs new sliders.
One for Boss HP/Damage to distinguish them from regular NPCs.
Another to tweak the dodge speed to whatever suits the individual player.
That is literally all the Solo Offline needs, so we can control things ourselves, because we’re alone and can fix the challenge to what we want.

The problem is, as stated above, it is too much of a BS balancing act at this point. There are far too many different options in the game. There is just no chance

Balance is all well and good, but I think some here are going to extremes on exactly what would be “balanced” in this.

If you are solo, it’s as simple as:

  1. Player vs Environment
  2. Player vs Bosses

You don’t balance beyond that. You balance it to be slightly harder than normal. Those who want a challenge, take a weak thrall, or don’t take a thrall at all. Those who want it a little easier, take a powerful thrall or pet. That is ALL that needs to be done on that side of things.

Online balancing works exactly the same way.

Player vs Environment
Player vs Bosses
Player vs Player

What is wrong with the player mentality on this is clearly evident. Everyone thinks the game has to be balanced for ALL playstyles simultaneously.

That is, and always will be, a completely ridiculous belief. It’s not going to happen. And trying to do so is only going to ruin the game.

The core of the balance is exactly as I’ve listed it above. PvE, PvB, PvP.

Thralls are too powerful? They should be balanced around the Environment. Build a system for how powerful the NPCs are that you face, Thralls need to fall into this category.

A level 20 Thrall should be exactly as powerful as a level 20 NPC, no more, no less. It doesn’t matter if the “AI is crap”. That’s how you balance it.

The problems only arise when players start demanding that Thralls get HP/damage buffs to offset their AI. And then they are broken against other players.

The hard line needs to be that Thralls are treated as the same power level as any other NPC humanoid in the game. They don’t suddenly grow more powerful simply because they are a slave now. That’s ridiculous to expect.

If you remove all the nonsense about buffing Thralls and make them as powerful as the base NPCs, it would go a long way towards fixing the balance in the game.

You would end up back with the core balance that is much easier to maintain.

For those that want to whine that “the game becomes too easy when 10 of us and our 10 thralls gang up on one boss”, the solution is in your hands, as it has always been. Stop ganging up on the boss with 10 players and 10 thralls.

It is not Funcom’s responsibility to balance the entire game for this. That is the reason there are multiple servers and sliders to adjust things.

If you want a higher challenge, join a server where the bosses and NPCs get higher HP/Damage on the sliders.
If you want normal gameplay, join a server where the bosses and NPCs are set to the default balance that is set around 1v1, that is PvE or PvB.

There is literally no reason why the entire game has to be overhauled. The sliders are there to adjust stats. They need to be used.

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Not really. I have explained that officials having different settings for the different server types (PVE/PVP) would mean to please everyone of their customers on those servers any new item has to be balanced with the differences in mind. Meaning a slider doesn’t change that. When balancing, they (Funcom) would have to balance knowing the multiplier will effect it. Basically if either PVE or PVP think a particular weapon/boss/armor/thrall is to OP, changing the base value for one server type will still affect the other style, because the math changes in the calcs for them as well. The only way would to make 2 versions of that object in the game to satisfy both styles or make 2 versions of the game. Meaning either 2 teams of devs, or devs splitting their time on 2 games. Not a good path economically for Funcom imo.

As for SP/CoOP. Sure, I agree, different sliders are always a good thing. this would help private owners as well.
I have wanted sliders for all these added
Mini bosses
Bosses
Brimstone rates
Star Metal
Iron Ore rates
Gold Rates
Silver Rate
All Hide Rates
All raw meats Rates
All other resources Rates (Stone, Plants, Wood, etc.)
For console, it would allow for some very unique server settings out there.

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No, stuff doesn’t have to be balanced to appease everyone. That’s not how other MMO-style games work, why should Exiles be any different?

There will always be Meta weapons or builds. That’s just how it is.

That’s why I said, Funcom just needs to balance everything around 1-2 players facing it, and let it go at that.

There will always be those who know how to “cheese” a boss or NPCs to make them easier. It’s not Funcom’s responsibility to rebalance the game for those who exploit that.

And those who gang up in large groups have no room to complain either. If the content is too easy because of that, stop doing it. Again, it’s not Funcom’s responsibility to counter when players break the game like that. The solution, as always, should be in the player’s hands for that.

Boss is too easy, don’t take thralls, use smaller groups, do it solo.
Don’t demand that the boss be increased in power to accommodate a large clan, then try to hide behind “Well it’s an online game, git gud.” to the solo players, who get screwed over.

Balancing HP/damage for 1-2 players facing any boss or NPC should be more than adequate.

It would suggest that 1 player could face a slight challenge against normal NPCs, and more of a challenge as the amount of NPCs facing them increases. If you’ve got 5 NPCs on you, you should expect to die. Plain and simple. A thrall should help to temper those odds.

Conversely, if you have 5 players and 5 thralls ganging up on two NPCs, the NPCs should be destroyed fairly easily. That’s just basic sense. Those players should not then be taken seriously when they complain that “It’s too easy.”.

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76

NOT at all… Why do think yo complicate?

  1. Thrall DMG output VS human players is a toggle. Reduces ALL DMG sources. No need for balancing each weapon on their own.
    or
  2. Thrall on following makes XX% less dmg against other humanoid players (with a cooldown phase, when place them somewhere)

No need to split anything up… Dont make it extra hard :smiley:

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But if a weapon is balnced, then it will affect the entire calculation. Or are we now going to have weapons released that are perfect the first time thru.

Here is the most basic logic of dmg (way more compicated)
weapon+thrall multi+thrall att % = dmg.
If weapon is changed, the entire dmg is now changed.

If they make just a slider, how much damage does a thrall do to a player, you are changing the formula in the code to have to identify the player…and if I am in a camp fighting another player, how does the calculation figure. Will it use the NPC damage or the player damage calculation. Or are we now not going to be able to fight in camps, because it would be RNG on what calculation was done at the very moment. OR is the attack going to be simultaneously doing both calculations in case it makes contact with NPC and player (hammer AOE?)

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It changes the thrall dmg multiplier. Exactly what the current nerf at testlive is doing :slight_smile:
By the amount of the slider. 0-100%.

Which again is NO problem and is already ingame…

Or do all NPCS or human players get the same dmg?Even in an AoE attack. Nope → armor is a big value, in what dmg you finally receive.

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The slider would have to be to identify players on the receiving end then. Again, it seems like a lot of rewriting that opens up to splitting dev resources. And all this because (from shown) videos, players may have to actually use a weapon to help some thralls fight.

And i know it doesn’t matter as much to you, you already face rolled to 100’s of FoP’s in chests. That is why i can’t take your arguments seriously, as i don’t know how that felt like gaming (and you even said you cut back on playing). And stock piling may be okay with you, but to me, it would be like playing on freshman mode on NCAA football. Just press X to do everything.
Once you have 2 very different settings, balance becomes even harder, you have 2 sets of numbers. no matter how you spin it…
Example
2 weapons (W), 2 Server Sliders (S)
formula:W x S

Weapon 1
PVE–2x4=8
PVP–2x2=4

Weapon 2
PVE–4x4=16
PVP–4x2=8

PVE likes both weapons as is.
PVP thinks Weapon 2 is OP (2 times the damage), and is uber meta.
funcom adjust weapon 2
Weapon 2 after adjustment
PVE–2x4=8
PVP–2x2=4

Now PVE is mad because Weapon 2 was super hard to get, and they "nerfed: it.
so they adjust slider to compensate.
Weapon 2 PVE --2x8=16
but that effects weapon 1
PVE–4x4=16
So now weapon 1 is face roll easy.

How do you not see that tweaking any number for one weapon, causes issues. And remember, all PVPers do is cry about weapon balance.
Or all PVE okay if something is being balanced on PVP side weapon wise, it may cause rolling changes to everything else on PVE.

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Again, you make it way to complicate…
The weapons itself get ALWAYS balanced for every mode.
If FC would really have weapons completely different in PvP and PvE, then yeah. That would be a massive workload.

The new setting would only be for thralls VS human players. PvPes dont get wrecked by thralls. Thats what most PvP have problems with thralls.
Or If we make it for following only, then thrall defending would still be the same.

Oh come on… I always fought with my thrall. And I even did great dmg, because when I made this massive UC runs, I used the broken Act of Violence.

So this was the time I fighted against bosses and it made the MOST fun, because I did good dmg against bosses.

Thats were I felt to be a Hero!! Not nerfing thralls into the ground and still doing crap dmg.

That was also my Idea of fixing the game. Such weapon mechanic, which only works for PvE. You are strong without buffing…

I posted that in the testlive feedback thread.

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Okay…going to keep this short as possible. Dad (@krix_ost) does not want to post anymore on these forums because of the serious toxicity of most of the people here. I guess I am learning that too. Even this topic which a kind of pseudo technical post with a vote has all the Banner Holding peeps with torches chanting their hatred or simply refusing to look at actual facts because those facts are not fun or in their belief.

Technically he explained and showed me (this morning) how Funcom can very easily choose between which data tables are loaded…even at run time. We work in UE4 mainly in presentations and ArchViz (think wall paper and paint colors and various kitchen designs) but use Data Tables for creating the data (MS Excel Spreadsheets) needed for the systems to run and he switches between them while UE4 is running. Being able to switch from 1 kitchen design and various colors helps us provide great services for our designing customers.

Well…Funcom uses these Data Tables to load Item Data (and lots of other data) to Configure Conan Exiles (Open the DevKit if you don’t believe). This data can be changed (re-loaded) at runtime. He says it depends slightly upon version of UE4 but this has been available since UE4 began handling them (He thinks around UE4.9 without looking it up). He says there are only a few Data Tables that need to switch at runtime so the work load is fairly minimal. It does mean that multiple spreadsheets need to be maintained…but I do lots of spreadsheets for a living…and that is really just a work ethic/mode.

So basically…Enable PvP in Conan Exiles…Loads in Data Table B…Disable PvP and Loads in Data Table A…

Hopefully this provides some light bulbs to turn on. This will likely simply disappear into the bucket of hatred rant posts that don’t even apply to the topic.

/------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/

It is Friday and beautiful and dry AZ hot outside :clap: :ok_hand: :+1: I think this is going to be my last forum posting outside of maintaining my server advert. I thought becoming more into the forums instead of just perusing was a good idea…how wrong I was. Should have listened…tick another experience into the memory banks. Happy Real Life is calling…back to my awesome job and a great weekend. Fare well.

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82

Well, Funcom has presented their current idea to fix it. Nerf HP of bosses… Lets see (I hope to see some tests from others) how it works out.

83

Nerfed Bosses are okay by me. Hope they get the HP down on all NPC’s to where i can just run over them with my horse. Takes to long to mount and unmount any ways.

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Better yet, i hope it eventually gets to where Thralls render, then immediately turn to loot bags. Saves even more time.

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And you pick up the loot, when you run above it :smiley:

Also T4 gets knocked out on sight :stuck_out_tongue:

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