Shrine Offerings: Awesome Concept, But Aren't We Forgetting Something

Conan Exiles General Discussion
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As I related in a separate thread, I quite recently went to check on my Shrines, and was surprised to see several new options for Manifestation of Zeal within each. So it seems that we now have the option to destroy artifacts from rival religions within our shrines. Now the first thing I wanted to was…I absolutely LOVE this idea!! Thanks Funcom, I like the idea of being able to antagonise other gods, and the mechanic itself ensures that these items do not lose their usefulness after being consumed/used the first time in order to learn the religion. Seriously, this is such a darn cool idea! :smiling_imp: :metal: Hey did I mention that I like it…!? However, I do apologise for finding a downside to such an awesome feature, but why was Crom omitted from this new feature?

Ok folks lets start with the elephant in the room here. Almost everyone here on the forum knows what I am an advocate for here, and I am synonymous for it. However, while this overlaps with my core arguments, this is also different. So let us explore, why I believe so shall we. So are we suggesting that Crom worshippers never destroy religious symbolism of the other gods, or for that matter that zealots from other religions do not attempt to destroy the faith or manifestations of the followers of Crom? Because I would beg to differ. Followers of Crom should have a means to destroy other religions artifacts, even if it is not ‘offered’ to Crom, and for that matter, other religions (I cant believe I am going to say this…) should also have the ability to destroy representations of Crom worshippers. Lets for now leave my past arguments for a Crom Forge, Purge, weapons and armor aside for now. Just for the sake of an example, could we not even just have an ordinary wooden chopping block or something with an axe or a a hammer stuck into it, and when we deposit offerings from other gods they are destroyed? Or even a ‘destroy artifacts’ tile in the Handcrafting Menu. It doesnt even bother me if we receive no Manifestation of Zeal. I mean why must the followers of a savage barbarian god pledge allegiance to another god just to be able to destroy the artifacts of a rival god…? Does this sound weird to anyone else here, or am I just crazy?

In addition to this, I wanted to discuss why there is still no way to learn Crom’s religion during the game. We have just added the new Zath religion to the game, which I also think is downright awesome and I love his avatar!! But here is the thing, we just added a whole new NPC (nice!) to the Exiled Lands so that we can learn his faith, ie-this handsome fellow bellow, :point_down: equipped with dialogue and all.

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So couldnt we have considered adding an option for a trainer to teach the Crom religion too while we were ‘under the hood’ proverbially speaking, and working on new religions, their items and mechanics? But who you ask?? Well I nominatate this towering muscular beast of a man below, who just happens to coumt himself among Crom’s faithful :point_down:

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Folks while I love this idea, and I still love this game to death, this omission leaves Crom devotees out in the cold again. It reperesents more fun content we cannot access unless we betray our allegiance to him, and furthers the realisation that he has no role in this game beyond the character creation screen.

I am happy to bounce around some ideas for a Crom followers artifact for others to destroy, or the means by which Crom loyalists could destroy theirs. Or for that matter thoughts on how to learn his faith im game. So fellow Exiles; thoughts, ideas, rants, I would love to hear them. I am just getting us started and throwing open the door for the discord here. And but one more thing…

For CROM!! :mountain_snow: :metal:

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I always picked Crom religion because I thought there was no way to learn it . Still you do , there is a spot that you learn croms emotes etc , still because it doesn’t exist on the game as acting necessity ,even take it as a first religion is useless . So yes , I would like , or better love some more than the original troll this religion has in the starting game . I would like to do something more than emote by Crom . I would like to have some main benefits in the game rewarding me for choose Crom for my first religion ,or for my only religion . For example there are so many weapons that their abilities being nerfed , act of violence , life blood spear etc , I would love to gain their abilities back because I choose Crom . Or , let me use the sword of Crom as a reward of my religion choose , that would be awesome . It would be a big and nice dilemma , sword of Crom or summon gods ?

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That would indeed be a interesting choice! Then again, it falls to much into making Crom a religion with a benefit. Fairly sure that doesn’t fit with Crom not caring about, providing benefits to, or responding to his followers.

The downside to this would be, it is far too easy to learn the other religions whether by reading a book or scroll, drinking a potion, consuming something, or talking to a priest. Learning any of the other religions should void this shadow perk of Crom. unless an option was enabled to allow the players to cancel the knowledge gain, I can see some salt being spread by the tears of the followers of Crom who read a scroll and learn all about Mitra… and suddenly loose the shadow perk.

I like @Croms_Faithful idea about adding something for Crom followers to use to dismantle relics and scriptures of the other religions. … perhaps adding that as a feature to the dismantling bench would suffice for everyone (thus not making it uniquely a Crom thing and thus avoiding providing a ‘benefit’ from that religion). Anyone could chuck the things into a dismantling bench and perhaps gain materials to turn into other useful things. coal for instance… :thinking:

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@IPL_Victim ,Just imagine your character full strength and vitality with the sword of Crom in your hands , just imagine you to be the old Spinas the marauder , all the dungeons solo , omg it would be awesome , not for PvP ofcurce however :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

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I agree with all of the above. This oversight is disturbing, but combine it with the oversight within the other religions and it goes from disturbing to down right unacceptable. What other oversights you ask? Well besides the obvious lack of Crom stuff which @Croms_Faithful has done an amazing job advocating. Derketo lacks any emotes, placeables, or NPC’s that call her name. Ymir lacks emotes and NPC mentions. Thats just to name a few, another major oversight is the lack of gender equality amongst the gods as it is 6 males to 1 female. Mind you thats only counting the religions with avatars otherwise it would be 7 to 1. Its my opinion the ENTIRE RELIGION system needs to be fleshed out, balanced, and expanded. In Robert E. Howards books 85% of all conflicts, wars, and machinations were religiously driven. With such rivalries as Set vs Dagon (Set kicked Dagon’s butt and took Dagon’s wife Derketo as his own wife.) or the rivalry between Derketo and Ishtar over the fertility domain. With proper work the religion system could be a staple and important aspect of CE. But in its current state its nothing more than cool decoration that makes for the potential for a siege weapon. Sorry for ranting slightly off your intended topic @Croms_Faithful my apologies .

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oh, I can imagine it, to be sure…

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Well, in the 1982 movie, Conan (Arnold Schwarzenegger) has a scene where he is discussing Crom with Subotai’s Four Winds: Conan the Barbarian - Crom Laughs At Your Four Winds [HD] - YouTube

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90% of all content on Conan.

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No it doesnt work that way Halk; Crom wont annihilate you simply for discussing him. This isnt just demonstrated in the movie which @Bodin hilighted, but even in Robert E Howard’s original writings. For example, in The Queen of the Black Coast Conan has a lengthy discussion with Belit about several gods, including Crom. Furthermore, in The Phoenix on the Sword Conan even goes as far as to demand that Crom send him ale and challengers then proceeds to threaten Crom. That is not even to mention the Expanded Universe instances where he is discussed. Braga also makes mention of Crom in Conan Exiles.

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@Croms_Faithful , I will beg your pardon but I need some enlightenment here . I saw all the Conan movies and if I remember correctly 30 years ago in a vacation I read one of the books of R. E. Howard , still it was back ,I was 14 or 15 years old and the book was translated on Greek ,so you understand that the things that I read was not that strong us you experience them written in the original language . I know several Greek writers that their masterpieces cannot be translated , trust me . So back where I started , what exactly was Crom ? God of what ? We know that we speak about a man’s fantasy , still every god represents something , for example Athena was a goddess of wisdom , Zeus was the thunder god and ruler or all the others , etc …
Either way no matter what God you were you had believers and shrines , so why we don’t have a shrine of Crom ?

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I do not believe that the Crom religion should have shrines in the same manner as the other religions. No large edifices are appropriate in my mind.

A small brazier for tier one at which other relics may be burnt into coal
Upgrade to a variant tier 1 furnace for tier two that functions as a furnace as well as burning offerings
Upgrade to tier three with a kiln equivalent with no god beam or avatar summons might be a way to do this.
Alternately, the ‘avatar’ summons provides a temporary Sword of Crom (expires like the Claws of Jhebbel Sag) for the player only (cannot be passed on to thralls)?

I’ve got to admit i’ve but read prior posts on the subject, so better alternates may have already been proposed.

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Perhaps for a shrine to Crom, a blacksmith is used instead of a priest?

Perhaps the “religious clothing” would be a blacksmith apron and mitts? Maybe even something to do with the ‘riddle of steel’?

An instead of an avatar, an earthquake is summoned (causing AoE structural damage)?

Just some thoughts…

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Certainly Stelagel. And credit to you for asking other members when youre not certain. We see all to often on the forum that members just take a shot in the dark, not just in lore terms, but in terms of gamplay and technical knowledge too. I feel it shows create character for people to be humble enough to ask others for help. I do it; I even had to ask what the offweings do in a separate thread before starting this current one. But onto business.

I will definately provide you with the fundamentals on Crom. However, it will take me some time to prepare, and I am off to work shortly. So I will try for this afternoon ok mate.

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Ok Stelagel I am back now mate. Sorry for the slow replies, my work is extremely demanding even at the best of times, hence why I am usually more active on the forum over weekends. I thought that rather that jumping directly into direct lore quotes and walls of text, I will begin with a short video which will give the ‘gist’ of Crom and his nature for you to read. This guy does a descent enough job covering the basics of both Howard’s lore and Expanded Universe (EU) lore, AND he has a cool sounding voice! Althought there has been some overall minor liberties taken in his interpretation. So dont take the video as unassailable gospel, it is just an accessible starting point and summary ok good buddy?

Now that the fundamentals are covered, I will over the weekend provide the most pertinent and referenceable examples of both Robert E Howard’s lore, Expanded Universe lore and the movies’ lore. I will quote, then compare and contrast them. For the final section I will provide my own personal interpretation, and then try to unpack this and provide sound underpinning logic and a clear rationale for advocacy for change.

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I believe the purpose of Crom was and is still intended to be a non religion option for players that don’t really want a buff at the start and that want more of a challenge even though they could’ve just given us a (none) option.

I’m playing on a the Siptah map and chose Crom as my god and picked a dangerous part of the map to start cause I like a challenge.
I would however like to see status or maybe an armor or sword of Crom that would be nice since we have emotes and as a buff maybe fighter thralls break faster on the wheel of pain but as for offerings I don’t believe Crom needs trivial little sacrifices to prove his worth instead I offer my victory in battle as a tribute to Crom when the blood of my foe flings from my blade and hits the sand is my offering to Crom .

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I’ve suggested this like three years ago, but I’ll bring it up again.

Those who choose Crom as a religion, should receive a benefit for it. A bonus to their stats to reflect that Crom makes his followers strong at birth and that is all he ever does for them. Choosing a religion after character creation loses this bonus forevermore. A weakness shown by the follower for calling for favors from weaker gods.

Those who start with the worship of other gods can not unlearn what they learned and cannot switch to Crom. Only those born with his favor and follow his tenants from the moment they leave the womb can get the bonus.

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How about training grounds instead of shrines and combat trainers instead of priests? Defeating a trainer in sparring matches (with truncheons) grants stat boosts but only if your clan has no other shrines.

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First of all , thank you very much , now finally I feel enlighten about Crom . All this time I was picking Crom for practical gaming reasons , now I will have one reason more . i know , that if there was a parallel universe and i was barbarian , I would choose Crom definitely . Now , like @Taemien said , I totally agree that by picking Crom I would die harder from starvation , or thirst , or poisoning , or bleeding and sandstorm . Even when I had really low life I should be gaining the Berserker buff , this would be fair and only this by picking Crom as a first religion , or better as only religion . Still , I don’t know if this already happens in the game , I never test it , I will try in a new server to go lvl 60 a player without gaining all the other religions and test it . I don’t believe any of us reach lvl 60 without learning other religions .

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My pleasure Stelagel! Always a pleasure to help out a friend. The analysis and lore is still coming (Im probably about ~70% done), but it is proving a little time consuming pulling it all together. A heads up for other members that this post will be a bit of a wall of text, but I think it will be worth it. [Crosses fingers]

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My pleasure @stelagel, although I am not quite done yet old friend. I shall now hit you with sone relevant lore from a variety of sources, then given how long this post has become, perhsps attempt to further illustrate the case for why I feel that the case for more in-game Crom features/goodies/artifacts/items/additions (call them whatever one likes; I use these terms interchangeably to denote the same thing) is both compatible within the parameters of the lore, and has merit, and makes sense from the point of a game mechanic. Or I can just reply to peoples as required.

Now it is important to establish that some online sources have a tendency to embelish facts and and insert their own narrative to a) add interest for readers, or b) to further their own claims. Now, while this can make for more interesting reading, it also creates contextual issues and distortions. So while some sites such as wikipedia, fandoms, blogs, etc make claims, they often do not do their due dilligent fact checking (remind anyone of wider societal problems…?), resulting in the spreading of false or out of context lore and information. For example, in the video it states that “Crom sees prayer as a sign of weakness”, and that “Crom approves of courage and tenacity, even if the human is too frail to succeed” and also “bestows people at birth with the courage to survive, persevere and vanquish adversity”. Now while such claims ‘fit’ with the lore and and are quite possible, perhaps even probable, they can not be referenced or directly tied to any official source of lore, but are rather desciptive and speculative additions by fans. As is anything which cannot be directly referenced, and which I am more than happy to acknowledge if it can. So, I will say this now both loudly and clearly:

:warning: Every, and I do mean EVERY lore fact I claim both here and in my Crom overhaul thread, I can directly reference! :warning:

Now then, onto some referenced lore shall we. Let us start with that taken straight from the great mans pen.

ROBERT E HOWARD LORE:

While there are dozens of small or tiny snippets relating to Crom, primarily invocations (eg-‘by Crom!’), there is a surprising paucity of discussion surrounding Crom in Howard’s works. So I shall begin with the two most commercial, well known ones then follow with two others which I feel are relevant to my calls to expand upon Crom.

  1. His gods were simple and understandable; Crom was their chief, and he lived on a great mountain, whence he sent forth dooms and death. It was useless to call on Crom, because he was a gloomy, savage god, and he hated weaklings. But he gave a man courage at birth, and the will and might to kill his enemies, which, in the Cimmerian’s mind, was all any god should be expected to do. ~The Tower of the Elephant

  2. He dwells on a great mountain. What use to call on him? Little he cares if men live or die. Better to be silent than to call his attention to you; he will send you dooms, not fortune! He is grim and loveless, but at birth he breathes power to strive and slay into a man’s soul. What else shall men ask of the gods? ~Queen of the Black Coast

Ok we are warming up nicely here. Now for two others which I believe are relevant to the crux of my own argument:

  1. “Crom! His mighty shoulders twitched…Give me a clean sword, and a clean foe for me to flesh it in. Damnation! What I would not give for a flagon of wine!” ~The Scarlett Citadel

  2. They were a moody and brooding race, whose gods were Crom and his brood. They did not practice human sacrifice, for it was their belief that that their gods were indifferent to the fate of men. ~Notes on Various Peoples of the Hyborian Age.

EXPANDED UNIVERSE LORE

There we are. Now on to the Expanded Universe lore which I feel is relevant to my advocacy for change. There is of course more examples than this both in existence and outlined in my Crom overhaul thread. However, I am only going to draw upon the ones relevant to my advocacy, for additional goodies. Some are summarised, as they are MANY paragraphs long, and I can link people to the full versions elsewhere. Once again, ALL of these lore pieces can be referenced.

  1. Crom came to power by defeating the ancient demon Shuma-Gorath. In an act of desperation, the early humans who suffered beneath him cried out to Crom for aid. He instructed them to read from three Iron-Bound Books. Upon doing so, Crom appeared as a Flame-headed Storm Cloud, overwhelmed overwhelmed and subdued the demon with Lightning, then imprisoned him in what was renamed Ben Morgh (Mount Crom). ~Conan the Barbarian 1#260.

  2. Conan and a group of Cimmerian captives freeling from Hyperboreans invoked the ‘Wrath of Crom’ in order to defeat them. Following a summoning ritual, a great chasm opened in the up ground, and a Leigon of Undead Warriors emerged and slew the hapless Hyperboreans. ~Savage Sword of Conan #157.

  3. Conan and a band of Kozaki raiders are trapped by a snowstorm and avalanche. His former allies having turned on him, starving and freezing, Conan is close to death. Suddenly he is called before Crom (depicted seated upon a Throne, with Idols, a Greatsword, Spears and Armour present) and his Undead Warriors, who admonishes him to live. Conan awakens with renewed vigor. ~Savage Sword of Conan #110.

  4. Facing a dishonourable and unworthy death at the hands of a malevolent sorcerer, Crom intervenes to save him from certain death, so he may have a more glorious one. Conan slays the sorcerer and later makes only his second Sacrifice ever to Crom (a goat) as restitution. ~King Conan #8.

  5. Crom or a Statue of him seated on a throne are found in a cave on the eastern side of Ben Morgh where he watches over the Burial Mounds, known as the Fields of the Dead, wander aimlessly for all eternity. ~Conan the Valorous.

  6. When a boy is born a Ritual asks Crom to grant it “the Power to Strive and Slay”. ~Handbook of the Conan Universe.

  7. *Crom was originally slated to cause a Powerful Purge Creatures to appear if called upon. And to have his own avatar which would directly strike enemy avatars with Lightning. ~Conan Exiles. (early development)

  8. Crom was known to hurl Star Metal Meteorites at his enemies Ymir and his Frost Giant children in battles…AND a group of Cimmerians who were foolish enough to ask him for direct aid during one of those battles. ~Age of Conan.

  9. Star Metal is also percieved by the Cimmerians as a gift sent by Crom, who also believes in the freedom of man. ~Conan the Adventurer.

  10. Crom weapons, armor and artifacts exist in various lore sources. Conan’s Fathers sword is dedicated to Crom in the 1984 movie, with the runes etched on its blade translated to “Suffer no shame ye who wield this in the name of Crom”. There is also the Sword of Crom and Crom’s Hammer in the game, which are tributes to him. There is also his mountain insignia. Crom has his own unique armor, spears and a greatsword, an idol and a unique ornate throne adorning his throne room (pictured below). ~Conan the Barbarian, Conan Exiles, Savage Sword of Conan #110.

There are some of the fundamentals from a variety of sources for yourself and and my fellow forum members. I am happy to call the links I see in them to provide a clearer rationale.

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