The future of PvP in SWL

pvp

#360

After Chris said that PvP is not dead and Fusang… I have found myself playing again and tweaking Signets. Heck, I even spend some real money for Agent stuff and Cache keys.


#361

U see Funcom U talk about PVP and ppl start tossing money at yaa, Imagine what happens if you bring it back for real :sunglasses:


#362

you can always bet on irrationality, everyone knows :slight_smile:

Anyway, the real question is. Did he (and others who for some reason want PvP and just from “we would like” talks buy things that are completely irrelevant to PvP) spend enough to pay the paychecks for all those guys (and their accountants and managers) needed to make it happen?

If so, it would be good idea to hire/transfer extra guys to do it. If not…

My old friends left because there was nothing ahead, no announcement, no information about what and when might come. And after 3 months each of them stopped even asking if there is anything new. And only very few came for ND and left just after because it’s short to spark the light by itself and the memory of long months of nothingness works against the will to stay.

So if just talking about what a team has done in last 14 days is that much expensive that you just hope you will be able to make a letter in 2 months. How much would have been sacrificed in order to do “balancing and rework”?

PvP is constant balancing mess. In PvE all you have to deal is people complaining that some weapon, some skill is weaker then the other. But it doesn’t matter because making one weapon stronger only makes PvE easier for everyone so it’s only personal pride that is challenged. In PvP it becomes s***storm because better weapons go against you. And in trying to catch this falling PoS they make changes they don’t understand and just “hope” they somehow solve “the problems”. Like they did in TSW. It was wise to avoid that completely in SWL since they can’t make those two domains separated completely.

I would rather skills been finally fixed after 9 months! New content, new systems. And anything drown in the impossible tryouts to balance meaningless PvP here while ruining PvE just drains the resources out. And it would’ve been hell of the work as you might’ve seen in the last event and how some “specialties” perform and work. There so many broken things in terms of PvP balancing. And Fusang would make it even more insane with more people in.

Just a different point of view :slight_smile:


#363

did u read one post in this thread?
PVP might be meaningless for u, but It is not meaningless for us.

PVP is a valid endgame content.
PVP is fun for all that want to participate in it.
PVP forged friendships in this game that survived the end of TSW
PVP bring ppl together that would normally not meet

The secret war was a main theme in TSW
PVP kept me invested in this game for years and it will keep me invested in this game cus I LOVE PVP

so please don’t say its meaningless cus u are not interested in it


#364

I think the re-balance of weapons and skills was always going to happen, it always does and is a constant thing regardless. Because getting it right and being the right and final time it’s right, is something that would probably never happen. But skill re-balancing and weapon re-balancing will always remain a constant. They have people for that already i assume. It affects both PVE and PVP as you know - you can’t really keep the two separate in that regards. It’s also the most cost effective way or they would be wasting their own profit in trying to do things separately, now i don’t see them doing that, do you?

Assets are already available when it comes to design so they don’t really need to be designing anything new since they already have it, so there isn’t really a drain from any resource. I don’t see them going out of their way to waste more money again on designing something new when they have 3 perfectly good zones to chose from, that had already working initiatives. It’s also the most cost effective way, i don’t see them doing anything different, do you?

The radio silence of yesteryear seems to be at an end, Chris seems very forthcoming and full of ideas and answers, as well as being open to suggestions - or else he wouldn’t have asked the general rabble what they would like to see next. Nor would the reason for the absence of a 2018 roadmap not have been explained on the financial reports (they wanted to engage with the community and get a feel for what they wanted so they had a direction - that is clear now) - i assume this is to avoid wasting what profit they have gained from people who have paid for patronage, paid to max gear, paid for aurum with cash etc etc

I’m pretty certain skills and weapons are being worked on as we speak and have been for months, things just take time and with the primary focus being on story content, which is absolutely fine - the acknowledgement that the PVP community is still important to the devs - straight from the horses mouth as it were - is some very great news indeed. It may shatter some people illusions they once had that the PVP or group contnet community, were of little consequence - when it ranked one of the highest suggestions on this, their official forum and the popularity of this thread alone - speaks volumes.

This PVP thread is one of the most popular on the forum and the last PVP event saw 146 unique names out of 75% of recorded matches - names were verified along with matches played. That in itself is an achievement that had every odd stacked against it - and despite being constantly marginalised by other portions of the community - came out on top in spectacular triumph.

Despite the popular and ye olde belief that PVP is dead and not worth looking at - the contrary has indeed, in this case - been proven.

The fact remains - the more you cater to as many people as possible instead of just one - the more people will stay and play - or else you risk many in their droves looking for other games to play - never to return. As you yourself are aware in the many months you have been playing for.

The PVP event previous saw many old players of PVP return and many first time players who had never even experienced the fun to be had playing PVP.

Currently the Shambala zone is not ideal, the zone itself is actually meaningless, but PVP isn’t, it has a loyal following, we know that and the devs know that - but things take time. I’m ok with time.
The PVP community at large are mostly using that zone for it’s scheduled events and i would hope, be making some valid arguments and pointing out it’s many flaws in a coherent manner for the devs to work on when the time arises.

If nobody plays it then they will never know - but thanks to Drenneth and the PVP community and to those who joined in, the past match event proved this - “Build it, and they will come”

M


#365

For a long time I was of the opinion similar to you that PvP would put too much of a strain on there resources however each time a question has been raised on the forums about the content people want to see or a post about the topic in general has been raised or simply the success of a PvP event that was frantically put together last minute as a trial it makes me realize more and more how much it may in fact be in funcoms best interest.

Don’t get me wrong there is some key issues I’d like to see them resolve in PVE but just like yourself I’ve seen more then 90% of the people I knew for years dwindle away after the release of SWL and that is quite simply out of boredom. PvP offers dynamic replay able content for players of all levels in the game. It never become static and ability balancing only adds to its dynamic nature. It also offers a challenge which is equally missing from SWLs content currently.

Lastly I think it could turn a large profit for Funcom. Unlike PVE where BIS is the end of the story. PvP there is rarely such a thing and it would make far more use of many of the weapons and tails that Funcom has taken the time to design which the PVE community won’t touch with a ten foot pole.


#366

AMEN praise the new dawn


#367

Corns gone Wild


#368

“meaningless” as without any reason, any consequences, or any link to whatever the game actually does. Just separate map, only good for shortterm “themed” skirmishes. Which from work and balancing point of view just doubles the effort needed to change or introduce anything.

Thing is, people like these skirmishes but for whatever reason instead of seeking games that are all about these skirmishes (and actually doing them good because they don’t care about PvE or story) they tried to put them into games where they don’t even make sense (hello Tomb Raider Multiplayer, great spending of resources, people loves PvP, they demand PvP).

It’s same as when you read something like “oh, this game is all bad” and someones replies “no, with friends it’s fun”. What it means is that you can have fun with friends doing literally anything, even starring into white wall, for a time. The game is still bad.

So yes, sure, it’s “fun”. But you would have the same fun anywhere. It’s not “Secret World” what makes PvP fun. It’s not some integral part that would chance where story goes. Or some original game mechanic that would make it fun (like playing pack wolves in LOTRO pvp at least). It’s not even about factions, if they ever mattered, like they even don’t.

That’s what “meaningless” means. If I meant “fun” I would have said “not fun PvP” instead.

You know why they picked Shambala as the PvP mode for TSW? And why so many people played it in early days (well, they love PvP ofc). And why nobody plays it now even when it obviously is so much fun, bringing an event as an example?

While I think @Drenneth is doing great job utilizing whatever remnants there are left, and while I would not oppose content just because I don’t like it, I also think it should never harm to be “the other guy” in the “closed group” where “confirmation bias” takes so easily over.

So when you, Scratch, used kinda illogical behavior as an example of “what people want” it should not harm to see there is still other POW. And as you try to protect what you like, I try to protect what I like.

(And also teasing Drenneth about PvP ofc.)


#369

Does it really have to be an either or situation. I am a TSW/SWL player and have enjoyed EVERY aspect of the game. I have role played, I have organised and been part of PVP events and PVE events, hell I’ve even role played in PVP (Ardri you are missed)

I have for 4 years spent nearly every Thursday (barring sickness or classes) been part of the Beyond the Veil podcast, discussing PVP and PVE content and championing both. Now I am not saying this all for a pat on the back or those “get a life Veri” comments but to illustrate that me, as a player , who identifies as a PVPer, contributes to all aspects of the game.

So why don’t we all just support each other and make this game as attractive to all players, no matter what your preference is for content…:smile:


#370

thats the reason u getting off?
A joke, cus I commented Sawos post this way?

I made a joke yeez, and u explode that is illogical behavior

No one is planing to take away anything from yaa, but hey if we…

…ask for PVP and u freak out cus u belive that will take away anything from yaa

I COULD NOT CARE LESS

The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few

thank you for your valid input it is highly appreciated


#371

That is one thing that made TSW so attractive. By the end of my journey in TSW I had over 340 days played and probably half of that was in PvE activities the other half in PvP. It’s the one reason I stuck around so long. Whats more is that I found between the two communities the PvP community was far more stable. PvP players made the own content, there own challenges and there was always room to improve or adapt.

@Elenoe I do appreciate your point of view and with all honestly if someone had asked me the same thing before I got into PvP in TSW I would have given the same response as you. I can’t recall if you said you played PvP much in TSW but I should add that Shambala was easily the worst PvP zone. And the “skirmishes” your referring to were only a thing in Shambala. Eldorado, Stonehenge and even Fusang perhaps especially Fusang were far more involved, I would change builds 10 - 20 times in a single match if the opposition was clever. We are both passionate about different aspects of the game and there’s nothing wrong with that. SWL left half of the game back in TSW and In the process of doing so lost a very long standing and loyal part of there community.


#372

The reason i found TSW so attractive was it’s unique elements.

I’m not a fan of wizards and warlocks or animal type creatures such as guinea-knights, i don’t really like the manga/anime style :corn: <<<(replace C with P - i’m not allowed to say it :frowning: ) looking imagery of the other games, they seem to have a selective audience they aim for, that audience is not me. I don’t like the metal clad sword plundering or top down view or - well i don’t like any other games because TSW/SWL set a benchmark for all other MMO’s that for me, they simply could not compare with - and still don’t - not by a long shot.

For me, it has the unique element of the human approach to conspiracy theory and legend, Myths brought to life as it were. (i’m a Flat-Earther and proud of it) But ultimately, it’s the community as a whole that had kept me logging in for years, and it was the community migration to SWL from TSW that brought me here and has kept me here to this day.

The fact one likes PVP more than any of its other content it has to offer, has absolutely no bearing on the matter, as the game in it’s entirety - is a whole package.

Just like making the best curry - you miss out one ingredient and it’s just not as good - that’s a fact.
The only thing that’s missing for me, is the decent PVP we had before, it should be returned - and i’m sure it will be. (along with the other missing content that i am looking forward to being added too)

TBH the only thing that kept me logging in to TSW daily and staying all day, was PVP - i loved it! So for me, a PVPer - it had every meaning to it. I loved to play with my friends and i loved to hate my enemies. The very reason i chose a side was so i could fight against the other, (and i was on all sides eventually - not just one) The fact that the presence of such isn’t here yet and i stress the term YET - (because Chris has said he would like to bring more faction related content) doesn’t make any of it, less meaningful.

I echo Drenneths comments about the Skirmish of Shambala - because the other zones were anything but skirmishes. We don’t want what shambala currently has to offer and they were wrong to choose it with the reason they gave, they know that.

I also echo Verittas comments - We love TSW/SWL and all it has to offer, but just because we as PVPers have preference doesn’t mean they like any of the others any less. We want it all to thrive on and in the best way possible - and that is to be all inclusive - not marginalised or cut off or left out.

SWL is unfinished - we are here to help build the future.
And it shall be glorious.

M


#373

Exactly. A mistake that displayed how Funcom was so out of touch with the community.

We abolutely need at least one of the other PvP battlegrounds.

I don’t know why they cut so much of the PvP when it is a cheap source of endless player-generated content that can be as competitive as the population can be.


#374

Presumably because Funcom chose to willfully delude themselves into thinking the by far most meaningless PvP play mode was popular for how it worked as a play mode, as opposed to the ridiculously too high by comparison special signet rewards (and on some days, ridiculously easy BB challenge completion, too)?

I’m sure if SWL Shambala gave awesome exclusive signets and counted as a main - or even just side - mission for dailies, people would still be all over SWL Shambala.

This is actually one of my bigger worries for Fusang making a potential return in SWL. Unless it actually ties into dailies somehow, given how involved really getting into that play mode is, I fear hardly anyone but core PvPers would ‘waste’ their limited play time. That would give Funcom false “proof” nobody wants to PvP. :frowning:


#375

It is a concern of mine also. I know there are mixed opinions on rewards for PvP, however I feel like PvP needs a spark, had the old PvP zones been in place at launch I think the rewards would not have been a massive concern because there would still be a larger presence in the PvP community to get the ball rolling so to speak. However in the games current state I think reward becomes an important factor as it gives incentive for new players to give PvP a try and hopefully progress to enjoy PvP and remain a part of the PvP community.

I was impressed by the number of players that turned down rewards during the Shambala event anything from Agarthan caches to Anima touched weapons because they were just glad to see PvP alive again so that spirit still exists in some.


#376

Actually PVPers have a tendency to scream very loud about balance and changes for their minority of a game have an unpleasant tendency to **** things up for everyone else.

As long as they agree to balance abilities independent of PVP concerns and the offical answer to “X IS UNBALANCED IN PVP” is to go cram it up your ■■■, I have no problem with them adding it to the game.


#377

I think if Funcom think that weapons or abilities need re-balancing (which they have said they will be) then they are fully aware that there is already a problem, and PVP isn’t even here yet. I think they arrived at this conclusion themselves.

Need i refer you to posts #265 and posts #267 of another topic where you mention FC dropping the ball in regards to tanking and your expressing worry that they would “Funcom it all up” if they were to re-balance.

This of course coming from the perceived notion of how wonky it all is in PVE.
I’m grateful to those within the SWL community who took the time to make their voices heard in highlighting these issues as it has led to the devs decision of taking a look at how they can re-balance it all for the better - before PVP arrives.

The road to Eldorado is paved with good intentions

M


#378

Exactly, so I’m hesitant to see them try to balance stuff for some kind of horrible PVP/PVE hybrid and making it worse for both sides. Balance for the two cannot exist in harmony.


#379

You will never get true harmony. That in itself didn’t even exist in TSW (they also mentioned that in the recent stream) It was a constant rework, re-balance to try and get some semblance of balance. But i do feel lessons have been learned from SWL.

The many voices that have expressed their feelings about the many issues presented and how mechanics just don’t work correctly with the skills, weapons, glyphs, signets etc between both the character we control, what we’re given to work with, what we have to work against and how it interacts with PVE - is a complex issue. So it can never be completely right or harmonic in that sense - but they have acknowledged that it can be made better - and they are working toward that. To which, i am most happy about.

All we can do is make them aware of what the problems are that we face - since we, as all members of all parts of the communities - collectively - are the ones who play this game and we are the ones who are expected by them, to stay for the long haul.

I don’t feel anybodies voices are louder or higher or more heard than anyone elses. We are all in this game playing it together and if things change and people don’t like the change - then they will have to be more adaptive, they should know Funcom by now and that is:

“Change always comes - and sometimes it comes fast and hard”

Don’t be hesitant - - Bee the change.
:honeybee:

M